Interesting conversation with Deor
posted by Dresden
2000-09-14 01:51:40
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...about gods checking on mortals. WARNING, this may not interest you, read at
o R W C HP:Fine Mana:Icy Move:Tired>l
The Dark Forest
Suddenly plants grow wild all around. Many once thriving pine trees stand
now dead and petrifying. Tangled through the tree branches are vines and
ivy. Thorn bushes grow all over the ground and against the tree trunks.
You hear eerie moaning sounds every now and then. Strangely, there are
also some other varieties of trees growing in some places... maybe oak
or birch, its difficult to tell.
An arrow made from a grey wood lies here.
A hungry warg is standing here, ridden by you.
Zorgmol, wielding a steel-shafted mattock, is here, riding a hungry warg.
A hungry warg is standing here, ridden by Zorgmol.


//// a bit later...


o R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>
* R W C HP:Fine Mana:Cold>

//// Ok, this room is definitely lit now

* R W C Mana:Warm>st
You stop resting, and stand up.

* R W C Mana:Warm>sea th
You begin to search ...

You didn't find anyone.

* R W C Mana:Warm>x
North - The Dark Forest
East  - The Dark Forest
West  - The Dark Forest

* R W C Mana:Warm>n
The Dark Forest
Exits: North *East* South West.

//// This one too!  This is weird!

, burns: why is it light here
Zorgmol says 'no idea'
, burns: odd
Zorgmol nods solemnly.

exa zorgmol
You see nothing special about him.
Zorgmol is a youthful male Orc.
Zorgmol da Capmaster has several bruises.
Zorgmol da Capmaster seems to have:
       A deep wound at the left leg.
Zorgmol da Capmaster is using: 
<wielded two-handed> a steel-shafted mattock
<worn on forearm>    a metal buckler (brand new)
<worn on head>       a great helm (brand new)
<worn on body>       a thick metal breastplate (brand new)
<worn about body>    a forest green cloak (brand new)
<worn on arms>       a heavy pair of vambraces (brand new)
<worn on hands>      a thick pair of metal gauntlets (brand new)
<worn on legs>       a heavy pair of greaves (brand new)
<worn on feet>       a pair of soft leather boots (used)
<worn around neck>   a black amulet
<worn on wrist>      a keyring with a key and a set of lock picks
<worn on wrist>      a jade bracelet
<worn on finger>     a banded ring
<worn on finger>     a ring
<worn on back>       a leather backpack
<worn as belt>       a broad silver belt
<worn on belt>       a stone
<worn on belt>       a sable pouch
<worn on belt>       a butcher knife (brand new)
<worn on belt>       a water skin

//// no lantern here, hmmm

* R W C Mana:Hot>sea th
You begin to search ...

You didn't find anyone.

na why is dark forest light ?

* R W C Mana:Hot>sea th
You begin to search ...

Your bash at *Testgayer the Orc* - BASHES - him 


* R W C Mana:Hot>' sheesh
, burns: sheesh
o R W C Mana:Hot>pray would the gods who come in warn us first????
o R W C Mana:Hot>pray what the fuck is thios
o R W C Mana:Hot>na fucking gods
o R W C Mana:Hot>na doing some stupid shit
Deor tells you '?'
o R W C Mana:Hot>na making light dark rooms light and theemoting shit
o R W C Mana:Hot>na dunno who it was
t deor can you ask who did this?
Deor tells you 'Ask who did what?'   //// Ok, apparently he doesn't know
narrate 
Your bash at *Testgayer the Orc* - BASHES - him   THis is what i got
, burns: did u see this?
Zorgmol nods solemnly.
, burns: i did
Zorgmol says 'it triggered client'
Zorgmol giggles.
Zorgmol says 'sat a target for me'
Zorgmol says 'nothing more'
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* has arrived from the south - WARHORSE.
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* leaves -- SOUTH -- - WARHORSE.

* R W C>Deor tells you 'It was probably someone testing to see if someone was using actions'

//// Oh, probably?

Deor tells you 'happens all the time'
A pack horse is dead! R.I.P.
tell deor sure but, can they explain afterwards at least?>???
t deor that sure sucked what he did
Deor tells you 'What was the harm?'
t deor he emoted game output
t deor i thought was some elf
t deor but more important
Deor tells you '
You'll live'
t deor i was in dark room
t deor and it was suddenly light
t deor that moron god had light on him
, burns: idiots
Zorgmol says 'should have seen relim trying to suicide'
Zorgmol says 'he had spammed 15 shoots'
o R W C>pray so is this idiot god who emoted some game output gonna identify himself???
Zorgmol says 'before he ate bash'
Zorgmol says 'he canceled them all'
o R W C>pray stupid moron
Zorgmol says '0,0000001 sec'
Zorgmol says 'before next rip bash came trough'

//// damn saw Relim cure himself, I was on hobbit, so didn't bother with him *slap* self

t deor sorry just pisses me off they dont have courtesy to explain even what they did
Deor tells you 'What is there to explain? I echoed game output in your room to
see if Zorgmol was using actions to narrate about who he bashes.'

//// Ahhh, finally a confession :)

Your bash at *Whocares the Dunadan Man* - BASHES - him 

//// here we go again :P

t deor well, it isnt when you explain it afterwords
t deor but after i repeadly asked about it???
Deor tells you 'If he had narrated *Whocares the Man* bashed then it would
have been a big deal.'
Zorgmol says 'did you get whocares bash ?'
You nod solemnly.
t deor i agree
t deor just would be nice to apologize or at least explain
t deor thats all
t deor you interfered with our game
Deor tells you 'Stuff like that happens all the time, and no one has to get
your permission or explain it. :)'
t deor thats what i mean
t deor its just bad style
t deor like linkless killing
t deor thats all
Deor tells you 'teehee'
Deor tells you 'Its nothing like linkless killing :P'
t deor sure linkless killing is also legal
t deor sure is
Deor tells you 'How so?'
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* is here, - WARHORSE.
*Thilax the Dúnadan Man* is here, - WARHORSE.
*Thilax the Dúnadan Man* pounds your right foot extremely hard.
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf*  >>>>>>>>>> SPRAYS YOU !!! <<<<<<<<<<<
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf*  >>>>>>>>>> SPRAYS YOU !!! <<<<<<<<<<<
You smite *Thilax the Dúnadan Man*'s right arm extremely hard.
Your victim is shocked by your hit!
*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* is here, sitting on the warhorse.
*Thilax the Dúnadan Man* is here, - WARHORSE, fighting Zorgmol.
Zorgmol is here, riding a hungry warg, fighting *Reivax the Noldorin Elf*.
o R W C HP:Hurt>Zorgmol narrates '*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* bashed'
Nazghol narrates 'triggeR?'
t deor you mess with mortal, you apologize thats how i see it
Deor tells you 'Zorgmol narrates '*Reivax the Noldorin Elf* bashed''
Deor tells you 'Those kind of automated looking narrates make me wonder, so I
do a test.'
t deor as long as its not action, its fine
Deor tells you 'Ya, and its not so its fine.'
Deor tells you '
You should know you weren't fighting an orc, none the less
bashing one.'
Deor tells you 'Or anyone named Testgayer :P'
*Gubbe the Dwarf* has arrived from the east - MULE.
*Gubbe the Dwarf* pounds your body extremely hard.
You smite *Gubbe the Dwarf*'s right hand extremely hard.
t deor yes but it confused
Deor tells you 'I apologize if you think it got in the way of your playing but
it happens all the time.'
t deor the hell outta me
Deor tells you 'heh sorry :)'
t deor ok, no problem, thanks
t deor btw a tip :)
t deor next time you gonna check on a darkie...remove light :)
Deor tells you 'jeah'

*hug*
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Lochdale2000-09-14 02:22:21
That was rather interesting. I am actually glad someone like Deor is checking for actions and what not.
Trigger Nazi2000-09-14 05:55:50
Someone has alias to narrate $targ bashed
And wizzes feel compelled to see if its a trigger?
Come on now, nothing better to do?
Nazgum2000-09-14 06:44:20
OK, what "I" do not get is this was a test done to see if
Zorgmol is on actions, and the DUDE admits that deor's
echo changes his target to Testgayer.

Obviously these actions are kinda untraceable, but madcat's
posting of his $dir tracking, and now this, makes me wonder
about how many people actually try to obey the rules and
how many try to work around them :P
Cur2000-09-14 08:04:39
I think way too many ppl are working around the rules. Of course, in my opinion clients that enable you to have hotkeys -of any kind- should be banned. And people should be obligated to show logs to show they're fighting fair. Of course, logs can be edited, but it often shows anyway if you know what to look for. It should all be down to aliases, reflexes, area knowledge and typing speed, not time spent configuring your client.
Hannibal2000-09-14 09:14:54
CLIENT POWER!! ACTIONS!!!! MUHJAHAHAHAHA.... *think*
Unknown2000-09-14 09:15:46
Deor is a very strange and disturbed human being
Zorgmol2000-09-14 09:18:50
Im not on actions any more than the next guy. All that happens to me when i bash someone, is that my client sets a variable called $bashed. If this is illegal, then please notifie me, and i will remove it. My target stays on *man* all the time, but a bash sets this variable so i can notifie group.
I still have to narrate $bashed is bashed at XXX, but i dont have to spell his name. Is this more illegal than other ppl who have actions for setting doors ?
Well, as i said, if it is, notifie me, and i vill take that variable away.
Johannes2000-09-14 09:46:33
How Dresden can feel upset and accuse the "fucking gods" of doing "stupid shit"
here is beyond me.
Unknown2000-09-14 09:46:40
Having an action to set a variable is not illegal :)
Relim2000-09-14 11:10:48
This was recently? I don't recall spamming 15 shots ever :P And since I am a big cluelesswimp, I play wimpy 220/293 or something. Bash me once, fireball me once, shatter me once and I run like a six year old girl with roaches in her knickers (ie, Darkangel ;) )
(I then run out of moves somewhere along the line and THAT's when you kill me)
Zorgmol2000-09-14 12:06:09
Fair enaugh, some unknown says having my client to set a variable isnt illegal, but could some V+ answer my question ?
I know many for certain that many ppl use clients to set variables for doors, and that have been judged legal. I fail to see the difference here. And since i am stupid, i dont have a hotkey for killing $bashed :), and i dont have one for labeling, killing label etc neither. All i admit doing, and all i did, was to narrate that he was bashed, and my client helped me picking up his name.
Sure, if it makes you feel bether Nazgum i can take that part out of the script, and just narrate 'bashed' since the only ones who need that information usually knows who i am fighting anyway.
And since we are talking about actions anyway, is this one forbidden ?
#act {ZBLAM!} {stand;ride}
Zorgmol.
Enforcer2000-09-14 12:19:17
dresden's point is that deor had light, so dresden thought some puke scum trying backstab etc...blah blah, why do i bother =)
TROLLS RULE!

........not
Diam2000-09-14 13:16:30
yeyeyeyeeeeeeeeee,
k6ik poisid ja tydrukud kirjutage mulle!
jojojooooooooo!
Deor2000-09-14 13:28:25
If I am a strange and disturbed person, imagine how fucked up YOU must be Mr. Unknown. You're too afraid to even show us who you are. :P
Zorgmol to Deor2000-09-14 13:31:43
Well.. answer my question please. Is actions for setting variables illegal ?
Since i consider myself to be a fair player, i will remove those actions if asked to. If nobody says anything, i will take that as a permission to keep them.
grunge2000-09-14 14:11:01
I don't know how to make clients work, but.....if someone can just set
parameter so that can nar 'targ bashed', then can't they still autotrack by
setting direction of track to a single key and then spamming that same key each
time the track dir comes through? It would still save more time than actually
having to assimilate and follow the direction.

I am not quite sure what the difference is between triggers and automatic keybinds. They both seem
overpowered to me.
Artan2000-09-14 14:32:35
This client and cheat story is really pathetic, who cares if he uses client or
not; look at those 10ms-30ms pc's aren't they abuse too? playing and moving around
this fast compared to a 300ms pc?
Give kids power to make em feel like mud police, yeah nice cyber-psycho junk for
15-18 yr old chit chat, now I wonder how many immos are power dreaming of different
technics catching poor client programmers off defence and uncover overpowered
cheaters, wow impressive.
Overpowered yeah right, whine more! perhaps you get a MUME dedicated client
downloadable from the fire server that will be the only allowed tool to be able
to play Mume.
Duvel2000-09-14 14:48:04
Nah I use TeraTerm Pro which is just colored telnet, should be fine for mume too =)
Gray2000-09-14 17:31:52
Deor definitely hopes to convert MUME to police country.

P.S. gosspodi, chto za pidaras etot Deor...
Baazunga2000-09-14 18:10:24
If a god tests things thats totally ok. But after some weird testing
like echoing and stuff like that, that god HAS TO instantly tell affected
ppl that he did a test. Else the player(s) might get confused totally
uncalled for. And here is a comment to all the gods:

"If you are on as a god ACT like one, dont narrate anything that has
anything to do with things outside of MUME. Drop the attitudes and
think about this... your are not a god rl, without the players you
are nothing... treat others as you want to get treated yourself"
Daevia2000-09-14 19:26:51
Before my script got deleted a made this cool "Any-key" alias.
Whenever something happened that needed my input I had it set
my * key between my ctrl and alt key to do it.
If i was hungry, * eat wafer
if i was thirsty, * drank water
if i was tracking, * would go the dir of last track
if my spells went down, * would cast them
pretty much I could do close to everything with one button
it rocked :)
it even put a prompt on my screen telling me what * was binded
to at the time, it also had functions for cycling through
target keybinds, like ctrl-* would cycle through target1-target5
Rogon2000-09-14 20:36:02
Dain once sent half a screen of trackspam while i was in midtrack to see if i was using auto tracker after some dork narrated i tracked him too fast or something, i think its great that there's people who actually cares about the rules and enforces them, otherwise we might as well not have rules, eh?
Axel2000-09-14 23:41:15
Gray>Deor definitely hopes to convert MUME to police country.
nod Rogon, shake Gray - there is not enuf police in mume yet
Cur2000-09-15 05:55:46
Some comments up, Artan seems to be trying to explain why clients rule and gods suck. Or whatever. The point some people are trying to make here is this (in case you didn't get it the first 300 times).

1. Link is always a discriminating factor on MUME. The management has said during the years that they try to keep the impact a good or bad link has on MUME to a minimum, or at least try to manage the game so it's not too biased against those with poor link. Whether they have been successful or not is, of course, subject to debate. Personally, I think they could have done worse.

2. Several years ago, people risked having their chars deleted if they left them running as bots, responding automatically to narrates of 'trans' with cast 'trans' (narrater). The reason? Automated characters, bots and characters running more or less on client-programmed autopilots were illegal and nobody wanted them playing the game. Since then, people have tried increasingly to circumvert any rules to this effect. Having automatic triggers, 'actions' such as automatically hitting or following and hitting became popular, although frowned upon by the majority of MUME players, until they were banned. Even after they were banned, several 'bad apples' were discovered, players who deliberately used actions in spite of the ban. After this, actions for many other things were used increasingly often. Actiontracking, actionbashing, actionfleeing and actiondoorclosing spring to mind, but there were other kinds. These have recently been banned because having an autopilot to play the game for you is not in the spirit of the game. Indeed, the autopilot, or client, serves only to enable your character to act with machine-like speed which is not humanly possible and thus gives you an unfair advantage. So the next step for those who ever seek to bend the rules as far as they will go to their advantage, is to have automatic variables or triggers that enable you to change your settings by pressing a key. A good case in point is Daevia's example, 3 posts up from this one. So instead of just automatically doing stuff, now you have to spam F1 instead to do whatever it is you want done. So in fact, you can program your client to recognize when it is prudent to flee, or when you are winning a fight, and simply hold down the key F1 and let your computer do the rest. Which in my opinion is not at all unlike having actions, you've just added a 'middle man' so to speak.

My wish is that -any kind- of automatic scripts - even client use altogether - be banned. Let the game be played as it is, don't try to gain advantage with the help of software outside the game. Link will always be of some importance, but that can hardly be helped, we can only try to minimize its import. Client use -can- be restricted and so should be.

I also would like to suggest that we ban ban Italy and Germany from the Euro- and world football championships, and fine chicken farmers for existing. Thank you. *<8^) (that is to say I apologize for the length and insignificance of this post).
Daevia2000-09-16 09:09:30
The only way to remove all forms of client abuse is to have Ilie code a
special mume-client that only allows aliases and keywalking. :P All data
would be encrypted and given a session key, etc. The same basis behind what
they do to prevent client side cheating on Quake3. But even then someone will
crack it and cheat. Live with it.
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