Guess what, NOC defense and Bree defense is the same code.

I liked what you said untill you said your ideas, i didnt like them.

@rain: i know that, it was just a joke someone said
@ethar: well, i expected that. But i appreciate that you liked what i said, it shows that some people agree with me about PROBLEMS not the IDEAS at the very least

*laugh* Rain

Yea mebbe they on same code
but in bree you got 3094830274 guards per square mile
while in NOC you got 1 guard per 2103948309 square miles.

You shoulda seen the amount of shit that came in to stop us when we raided Bree today

Noticed the GH change, was wondering wh ythe hell they did that.
So newbies(and highbies) have to spend time relearning a zone mostly passed
through after level 10, instead of learning pk zones...

Agree with the group thingie, but don't up darkie defense.
With groups messed up, would be impossible to attack, instead screw groups
and lower puke defense, so raiding pukes and darkies would be possible solo.

And make a command to turn off tells! :P

Yes. The differencd between Whitie Cities and NOC is immense. We needed like
35 legends to raid Bree. We tried it yesterday with some 20 legends and
failed bigtime (mostly because of the mobs). I dont have anything against it.
But then please stop whining Rain about 30+ darkies raiding when this is only
possible way to raid free cities. And even with that group we COULD NOT raid
GH because gates were unbreakable with ram (i think not sure) and even if
we could have broken the gates NO way we would have entered with maluses -100
to OB/DB/PB (literally).

I have been playing puke and i know that 6 pukes can raid Noc. This is possible.
And i'd say even easy. Because it takes five years for mobs to arrive at
spots etc.

Anyway i think that the raiding today was fun. Reminded me the old days
when everything was raided (including GH) but we got fucked at Elrond :)

Ps. Dear gods remove the stupid maluses near GH ?

I thought there was a command to 'ignore' player? Anyway, you can just change colour of tells to the same as your screen background, effectively ignoring all tells. About the problems, I pretty much agree with what has been said, and have said it all any number of times myself. The equipment problem is not that there is so much ultrapowerful equipment, rather there are -way- too many items that are beneficial, so if you run around with a group until you have them all, the combined effect is so powerful that it's silly. Cut back on the plusitems, and make more that are simply cool and promote rp or a nice feel of atmosphere within the game. I mean, whatever do we need circlets or twisted crowns for? Aren't casters doing all right as is? Or the multitude of items you can get that up your defense or ob or armour or whatever. There should be a maximum number of such stuff you can use, and by that I don't mean as much as you can carry, more like 2-3 items per person at any given time. Make more items like the great goblin's crown instead. And I've said a zillion times, that remaking areas that have been around since the dawn of MUME is silly, especially when mazes are added for no apparent reason. IMHO mazes are silly and make people frustrated when they try to map. About all they do is make areas unaccessible to all but those that actually coded them, those that playtested them, or those that have friends among either of the aforementioned. If the gods absolutely cannot see a new area without a maze, the key to the maze should be made available to all either via mumemail or news. And not in some extremely vague and unintelligible supposedly rpish mumbo-jumbo, but clear, concise English. And all changes made to MUME code should be posted via news immediately and without exemption. Even the real small ones. Else you end up with the same situation on your hands that I mentioned before: The privileged know, while the majority does not, and suffers.

I disagree. Levels do matter after level 25. They just matter less than the levels under 25.

Who was whining? I enjoyed the raid...

Levels after level 25 count as one tenth of a normal level. I think all legends know this, but a lot still choose to xp. So I expect they think it's worth the investment from time to time.

You did basically whack Bree defence yesterday (or technically the day before now). The trouble was not the mobs I think. It was the mobs+the whities defending together. Today there were more darkies and less whities, so the darkies rocked.

I agree with Cur on some of his complaints. Though not necessarily on the solutions. Things like circlet and crowns could be toned a bit without removing them.

my point is: whenever i played troll or orc, the defense of warrens/noc moved like crap. and with warrens, there are so many exits that suddenly either a mob is moving towards one part tracking *elf A* or *Hobbit B* or mob's just standing still picking his nose. With noc, the place is so damn big and spread out you got gruksh, kormock, and thrakghash moving towards a puke supergroup one at a time. I don't care how badass the mob is solo, it'll fall damn quick to 3+ pukes if the others are clear across noc. With Bree though, it's small AND compact, plus the muddle fits so that Chief Guard, Gathrain, etc etc are moving fast towards s gate and pretty soon you got 30+ darkies fighting 70 mobs AND pukes.

plus, i know a legend level is one tenth that of a compressed level but come on- i'm level 28 and i realized this legend level shit was annoying- come on: 9 million xp for a level that cost 300k at level 20 or so?

I second the idea that major changes, like when rangers were changed to be overpowered, this info should be know to bns before they spam bree and up the road to fornost. I lost 1 level to these superrangers, well 2 levels one level to bree rangers and one to picking closeing supertracking elven(GH) rangers. Cost me a lot of time to relevel. However i like the fact that equ makes a difference, and that a level 70 player can't insta kill me, or buffer me and 4 others since we only level 30. Grouping, trapping are part of mume, i don't think you can code them out. If you could I don't think any1 could kill my troll(Bunghol) unless you trap him, he has 634 hps and full metal. Eliminating closables and the ability to lead around more than 2 other players isn't gonna help. It will make groups split into 2 halves and then they will overkill with no group lag. Leave newbie zones alone, its hard enough to find enough water, food, and light as a newbie, expecially if you have never played a mud before. I love mume, I haven't liked wps change, move regen change, items(gleaming) change, sneak change. All I Ask is don't make any more big changes, mume for me is still playable don't change that.

When I say we don't need circlets and twisted crowns, I meant their spelleffect, not the items as such. The items could, as you say, be toned down or given another function entirely. If they were toned down, though, I'd say that an appropriate effect would be around 1% of the current one, not more. The joy of having items that are difficult to get should not stem from the power of those items rather than their coolness, looks or other effect that has no bearing on pk.

I like the fact that getting levels as a legend makes only a small difference. Otherwise MUME would be full of spam xping legends, and have less pkers. It also means that one has a reasonable chance at pking at level 25+ and not going to get overkilled by a level 70. (Solo both of them.)

*nod* Maybe slightly more than 1% because those who use them have to sacrifice something else worn on their head to wear them.

I have to say this is the hugest load of crap I've seen for a long time. I utterly
disagree with more or less any point that Juston tries to make here. On a side note,
I'd say there are many situations in which it would be quite possible to whack
Bunghol 1 on 1 without trapping him.

Bleh noc can be raided by 2-3 people who know what they are doing and are fairly high level.

ramble ramble ramble, people whine too much

-->If you were to take some of the MUME giants and pit them
naked against a group of level mid-40s with regular and thin metal
You'll find that without spells, the supposed 'giants' get killed
rather quickly.<--

Of course! In hand to hand combat, the one with some kind of sword/weapon and some armour
SHOULD rock any naked person (unless troll, of course).
Level should not mean that you can kill ppl naked.

Yep, but they shouldn't escaped unscathed.

Give those who walk around naked super move regen and higher max hp! Atleast if yer following a woman doing the same ;)

jesus what crap :P

quit reading after 15lines

Dont remove any nice eq, but make more eq accessible for a solo player, but as hard as for a group. Like 10 players entering smob, suddenly smob get a lot harder. All people who are whining about circlets here, maybe never had the change to get it ....

Honestly, MUME is fine imho...there have been only 2 changes that have annoyed me - when they made wps invisible and changed dark curved sword into dark broadsword.. the last one sucked ass :(

One thing that whould make mume more fun, is to make good eq hard to get. It used to be like OHHH!! He got one shining piece, now its like ohh he missing one shining piece, how strange.

nod zaber

and juston should be an imp

i liked most of those sugestions but the group shit is a hard question.
tho i tihnk you shouldnt make it so peopel randomly stop following you etc as some said it shoudl be erlier but i would like to see groups over 4 going like really slow and taking more moves the more peopel in group
then you cant really get spammed cause groups so slow and then loose large amount of moves (like pure scout sneaking mountless). that would be good i think
but thats just stupid little me =)

Pleeeeease don't change the leveling after hitting legend! Geez, that's one of the most balance-maintaining aspects of the game. Hell, adding on some more pracs, even if less than one per level, is motivation enough to keep playing that char, even if you don't pk. Also, Cur is right about the damn mazes being 100% annoying and 0% fun.

Apparently many haven't read the title- i'm in need of INPUT not flames akin to 'i hate this crap'. Dammit i try to be serious with the playerbase and yet some act like little children

But fortunately i braced for flames from anyone who is supereqed and supergroups. Anyone else have any suggestions?

Just some comments:

As far as quitting goes, anyone who has mudded longer than a couple of months knows that 'quitting' is common. Someone gets really frustrated, can't think of anything to do to help the problem, so they 'quit' so they can settle down some. It's not a big deal.

As far as 'info logs' goes, this site cries out for a bulletin board forum. Not that anyone who was sane would subject their site to the inevitable flame-fest that would ensue...

Mume poorly managed? Mume is incredibly well managed. I'd say the upper level of mume management shows an almost God-like level of restraint and sobriety. Read the comments here, read them closely, and you'll notice that out of 31 comments you had 31 different would-be versions of mume. All fanatically espoused, 99% poorly thought out. A mud that stays up and running at the level mume does for years is -not- poorly managed.

Mume's handling of high level characters is excellent. Without the current curved system this mud would be very unattractive to newer players. Only people with characters that had been in play for years could compete.

Decreasing huge groups priority #1? You gotta be kidding me. The current version of mume is the smallest sized grouping of players that has ever existed here. When I first started here there was no Leadership or anything else that limited group size. Number of players on and willingness to tolerate spam were the only limiting factors.

Get all gods on seperate projects working together? Not every god can do every job, not all jobs start at the same time, not all jobs take as long to finish, etc., etc. It's not easy to manage something like that, it's even harder when all your 'employees' are unpaid independent contractors.

Re-writing zones in newbie areas can't possibly bother newbies, they don't know the zones to begin with. It can bother long-time players making new lowbie characters, but any such player should be able to learn the new zone/zones in a couple of days. Not a big deal, and so far all the re-written zones I've seen over the years have always been better than the originals.

Should darkies be 'helped out'? Better home defense, more perks thrown their way? Before anyone answers that, it should be noted that the strength of the dark side has risen and fallen fairly regularly over the years. When I first started (4-5 years ago) darkies were considered grossly overpowered. Winter time was so bad most pukes either didn't play, sat inside cities and logged when raided, or played darkie. Currently, darkies are at a low point, but rash code changes to fix this could well make the situation much worse by destabilizing the mud in general. Which is why I admire the management here (see above), they tend to look before they leap. Left to the players we'd see the entire mud redesigned once a week.

Bleh, took me all this time to say what Tindomerel and others said in just one sentence. :)

Christ, I never would have written all that if I knew that paragraphs were stripped off by the mume.net code. What an unreadable mess. *laugh*

Ob and defense near/in GH are rediculous , like 40 - 50 ob for me and -200 defense. Average unarmed Olog-Hai has some 15 ob there. What is so fearsome for darkies there?

Juston's comments seem like they come from a person who is observing, but isn't really in the fray. Fighting against higher-level ppl, you can see an obvious difference in their effectiveness. Levels really do matter after lvl 25, you get ob bonuses, extra pracs, and increased spell dam against lower lvl ppl. . . I like the V+s and most Shapers, though there are several lower-class ainus that act like freaking morons.

I sort of agree with Zaber on the point of making good eq harder to get. Point is that it's just as hard to get now as it was way back when. People are just adapting to the code, finding the loopholes and the ways that make it possible for few people to do smobs frequently and easily. And I think that if the smobs were changed, we would again get a short period of scarce powereq, until people figure the ways and the funny bits out again. So I'd vote for mobs staying the way they are, and downgrading the eq and the max effect eq can have on you. And I think Tindo thinks this is crap only because he's permamaxeqed ;-)

re:It's not just me, right? the people ARE getting stupider everyday?

It's just you.

Well you wanted input..I only scanned it but I didn't see much that I agree with.

Wise words, but there are a few things I disagree with. First of all, we can't have a democracy in mume... that's not how it works. Secondly, hypocrites and linklesskillers like Zaber whine about people having too much shining, YET he still did balrog 4 times in a week and now has full shining on all of his characters.

Also, it is not a good idea for every builder to focus on one project. From my experience of building. "too many chefs make a bad soup" Instead, I'd say put some pressure on those who are building, either make them finish the project or give it to someone else. Two or three months should be enough for anyone to finish an area. The bottleneck is the va+'s need of validation for mobrequests, questrequests etc not to mention the proofreading and the final touches, the muddling checking, the muddling rechecking, so on and so on. More work than one may suspect as a mc-.

theres already to much eq that's way to fucking hard to get for the darkside making it any harder will just make it that much harder for darkies to get but pukes will still get it, wish tehre was no such thing as shining and break door stones and mithril circlets and all that shit just amkes people scarred to fight cause they dont wanna lose there precious eq

I have never seen so much whining in a long time. If i play darkie i LOVE to have
the towns(noc/warrens) raided. There is no easier way to get a nice kill. So
why do you wanna boost the defence? That would mean less raids and less fun for
the darkies. Maybe it's cause you're such an incompetent player that you can't
survive a small raid?
All of you with some time on MUME do remember that this whining about large groups,
overkilling, eq, trapping, diferent characters low playability, city defence etc
etc etc, has allways been there. Read some old post at the tales board. They tell
the same stories over and over about the players leaving the game thinking it is
not good enough anymore. those times that others found boring and "the end of MUME"
was the same days some of you found the best and happiest on MUME. Maybe it's about
time that you all realize that the reason why you don't think mume is that fun
anymore is cause it hasd nothing more to offer you from the way you are playing, or
anything to offer you at all. Either quit or try to play some new character in some
other way then you are used to.
I also think this possibility to post comments on the log board actually created a
lot of the discontent among the players. We are now able to see the whining and
the dissatisfaction like we have never been able to before. It is also a well known
fact that one guy grumbling will soon make another guy grumble even though he was
happy at the start.

Actually, vorlins comment made so much sense i would like to have written it myself. :)

The first 10 lines were already silly, so I didnt bother to read on...

As I said, i really wanted quit. But my school where we dont have 50% lessons that
should be and boring subjects are reason why i have like 3 free hours per day in
school for free. What else can i do?

I think "quitting" ppl rate in mume is same as 5 years ago, but now they have possibility to hype it on mume.net

You talking smack about us munchkins? I slap ya upside your head bitch!

It is sometimes said that groups are smaller now than they used to be, so people should quit complaining about them. They may be smaller now than they used to be, but they are more powerful than they used to be. A long while ago, you could survive hugegroup attacks because the moves/hps were different, groups had lag, they made noise, just about everyone could bob, mages and some warriors had the same sanct as a cleric, invis gave 50 db, port keys didnt change and almost all mages could port 10+ zones in a second, you didnt have to spend time seeking rivendell, every smite didnt give arachnia or venom, the old ford was an uncrossable barrier for orcs for most of the time, most hugegrouping was confined to bend area, etc. All these things and some others that I have forgotten made hugegroups easy to avoid/escape. Today a group of 6 can run around just as fast as a solo hunter, and only the leader has to do any type of thinking about chasing, while the rest just spam kill like hell. There was a certain point in mume where you would hear noise when there was a group around, and you could outrun them with their grouplag. The groups may be smaller than the hugegroup bendfights of earlier mume IV or whatever, but they are much more lethal today.

I believe that the puke cities being small with only a few enterences
is the main reason why the darkie cities are easily raided.

All they
need to do is add tons of mobs into NOC. NOC in the books is infested
by goblins. They should make NOC more caves and less mobs spread around.
Then move all the smobs and good xp mobs towards the center of NOC making
it more like the books. Gigantic caves with the goblins inside just waiting
for trouble and then they burst out in HUGE groups to attack. The enterences
should be spread around more and less protected whereas the inside of the caves
should be protected at no cost.

The warrens should be slightly larger with
more trolls. I believe that they should introduce a few more troll that constantly
search around the enterences and then put some more olog-hai around the enterences
making the warrens more deadly to raid, which it should be. The warrens should
be a nearly impossible thing to purify. It is just creeping with big animals
that want to eat you. A few tracking great stone trolls should be patrolling
constantly.

Changes to the darkie cities is what they need. Another item
that could help the trap technique is to make the close door command take slightly
longer in battle. Such as:

You reach for the door and try to close it!

An *Orc* slashes your arm hard and shatters it!

Aye! You can't reach the door!

An *Orc* flees to the north.

This would keep people from just trapping, another idea could be to add a manual
block to block the doors with a subtraction to your defense and offense.

These are just some ideas.
Don't hate me!

DANG IT!!!! Let you use

and
!!!! *FUME*

I mean: ~<~P~> and ~<~B~R~>

You know... glare..

Let us use brackets!!!! Just filter out the IMG SRC crapola. I look like a fool now!

I like your idea about the close door thing Jahara. That would be nice if there was a timing thing with close/open door that could be interrupted, or else have just one person be able to do it at a time or something. It is sort of unrealistic for 20 ppl in the same room all opening and closing the door 100's of times during a fight without the door falling off the hinges from all of the punishment.

I doubt even with linebreaks i could be able to read Jahara's mess.

I agree with Grimble's comment about groups being more lethal today, was logging on to write something of that sort myself, in fact.