Not a log just a question for debate
posted by Pontus
2001-04-17 15:56:16
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Why is there so much whining these days?
This is just a topic that I have been puzzled by on mume.


A lot of things in the game has people whining and say it is lame to use,
examples include:

* storeporting
* using poison
* using quake
* using call lightning
* backstabbing
* trapping/bash trapping
* hugegrouping/overkilling

Except for storeporting the whine is that the one whining ended up in a
situation where he had no chance of surviving. Why I find it surpising
to hear whines on storeporters, ie someone who got away from a certain
death using his spells in a way supported by the game.
Likewise I find the whines on quake and call lightning strange. They 
are 2 options available to a caster both with major drawbacks and
difficulties. I agree that they can be powerful in the right 
circumstances but not too powerful.  Bolt-fball-spray kills far more
victims in pk than quake and call do.

The same goes for backstabbing, powerful but with drawbacks, especially
since the sneak movecost/moveregen changes.

When it comes to poison I don't have any char at the moment who use
it, but I still don't think it is wrong to do so. Using poison is an
option open to all chars who use a weapon to inflict damage to their
opponants. There are ways to beat it (rem poison, antidote).
If you do not prepare for dealing with poison it's like a caster not
castin armour up before entering battle, it'll hurt like hell but you
can't blame your opponant.

Trapping, bash-trapping, hugegrouping and overkilling is mostly the same
thing, with just diffrent twists to the setting. And noone likes to have 
it happen to them.
I to, think hugegroup trapping is pretty lame, having died repeatedly to
mochotraps(TM) and other types of hugegrouptraps.

But grouping up 2-4 for xp/pk is not uncommon and perfectly ok (IMHO).
And so if such a group runs into a single opponant it's not an even
fight. But then again who's looking for an even fight? We all want that
little edge that will win us the fight, it's all in the game.

That edge can be a lot of things. Although I hear noone claiming warriors
should not use ornate when pounding or warsword when smiting. Ofcourse
not, you wouldn't get many kills using cudgel or quaterstaff, you use
your best option. 

So what's all the whining about?

-Pontus  p(filas,kasper,ulrika + a bunch more)
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Unknown2001-04-17 15:57:31
never seen filas, kasper, ulrika - who are you?
Unknown22001-04-17 15:59:58
same here. must be player from some other mud
larry2001-04-17 16:00:20
maybe he is just a newbie and BM legend?
Unknown2001-04-17 16:00:27
might be
Fredde2001-04-17 16:00:47
never seen unknown. who are you?
Nazgum2001-04-17 16:18:27
bleh you new freaks don't know pontus *spit*
enkidu2001-04-17 16:20:16
I agree with u pontus! If u dont like it then dont play mume but if u play then JUST STOP THAT WHINING. (i die alot & die often but i dont whine all the time)
Maal2001-04-17 16:32:35
Nazgum I don't think its the same pontus you are talking about :P
Johannes2001-04-17 16:42:28
I know Pontus, and trust me, he's no newbie heh. I must say I agree with him, my
motto has always been: If it's in the game, use it. Of course that does not include
bug abusing, but that wasn't the issue here anyway. Not that I ever really pk, so
I can't say I use any of the tactics above, I just think people whine too much).
Johannes2001-04-17 16:43:11
Oh. It could be a different Pontus, I don't know. The one I was thinking had a mage
called something much like Filas though, if I remember correctly.
Shadrach2001-04-17 16:43:27
Before I start making fun of this "log", can someone confirm that "pontus" is not in fact Warmaster? Please answer fast.
Daerandir2001-04-17 16:54:48
Bloody hell bunch of unknown morons start to babble whether they have seen Pontus in the game or not ...screw you ...the guy has a point u know ... either u are professional mume players and you find it very lame to discover or use sth which is not connected with skill to get trophys (which i doubt coz professional mumers leave their identity with a comment). or you are just fuckups with nothing else to do. I really cant get the point why is it so lame to use bashtrapping or bash stab tactics or call lightning, huge groups poisoning etc etc. bloody hell u have an opportunity to play the game YOUR way
but don't count on it that everyone likes to play it YOUR way ... i bet in the beginning the bash/stab was a very neat trick but now its fucking lame.
One thing that seems to be the problem is that maybe you have misunderstood the point of MUME ...this is towards both profs and haaa hmm well whatever... THIS IS A GAME not your life ... its fucking sad when it becomes your life
In large amounts it sucks your brain you know :) (logs about mumedreaming etc.)
GOD find a strategy that suits to you in the game.Enjoy the game and for god's sake dont start to make your own Cathegoric Imperatives. Kant did it long time ago.and i dont think that anyone knows what is the best for everyone
:)
Sharmak2001-04-17 17:08:59
Yadi yadi yaa
Jocke2001-04-17 17:12:01
This is not KTH Pontus
Mouser2001-04-17 17:29:01
*Clap* Pontus ... some very good points.



Re:Daerandir wasn't bash/stab removed?
Daerandir2001-04-17 17:31:33
Don't ask me ... maybe i ment to stabs in a row .. recently saw a log...
maybe got mixed up with bash/call lightning.
Moonshade2001-04-17 17:36:02
The key is: don't whine, learn to _survive_. None of my chars died to mentioned
skills/spells in like 6 months. And if I die, no matter what was the reason,
I always blame myself that I wasn't skillful enough.
The only exception is linkless death though. Then I whi^H^H^H complain a lot!
Vorlin2001-04-17 17:40:00
I think most whines here and on narrates are a (mostly subconscious) attempt to move the conflict to another arena, one where the person thinks they can do better than they did in the game. For instance, say XXX kills me when I'm lagged, so I post it here and everyone starts dogging XXX, then I 'win'. Mume.net comments simply provide an out-of-game method of attacking another player. /par/ A person might also believe that if they cause enough fuss about a particular skill/pk method that is being used against them that the people using it will stop (i.e. if enough people bitch about trapping then trapping will stop). /par/ The problem with either of these two kinds of posts is that they degrade the social atmosphere of mume to the point where it becomes a sociopathic free-for-all where anything goes. Because if everyone is going to bitch about everything that everyone does, there isn't any reason to behave in a civilized manner.
GORETONGUE2001-04-17 17:48:25
nog pontus. nog vorlin.
Daerandir2001-04-17 17:52:54
Nice :)
Moonshade2001-04-17 17:55:29
LOL Vorlin, you got the point. Bitching about something won't stop it
unless management also decides that this particular thing has to be changed.
So better go bug Valars or become Valar yourself. And try to keep mume.net
logs and comments constructive ;)
Rogon2001-04-17 18:33:32
the other pontus mage was named falas i believe! (even tho it wasnt its original name and he not it's original player!) Ulrika however, i remember killing when he followed trica around, so probably from the borås lab (reivax trica etc) Hmmm could be all wrong i guess so dont believe anything i just said. disregard! disregard!
Mammoth2001-04-17 19:27:50
... good old truth - use whatever tactics you want to, everyone else can just go to hell
Lochdale2001-04-17 19:31:15
PPL of Ulrika is a very decent ppl. For what it is worth, he is definitely someone I would go out of my way to talk to or assist.

I do, however, disagree with some of your points. I think we can break mume down into two groups of ppls: The hardcore (read its like a full time job) and the casual (read its a way to blow off steam and hide from the better half). The full-timers will always smoke the part-timers no matter what the methodology might be. I like mume a lot and have enjoyed the company of many of its ppls. I have, however, excepted my limitations both in time and in skill and I go from there. Play to your strenghts, maybe its pking, maybe its leading smobs or maybe you like to wander your orc all over arda so u can run like a girl from pukes in new and interesting areas (but thats just me). Overall, don't take it so seriously lads, its really not that important.
Rackhir2001-04-17 21:17:14
This is not pontus=warmaster
fed2001-04-17 21:26:15
let get it on
known2001-04-17 22:32:39
är pontus svensk?
Dagil2001-04-17 22:49:41
The only thing who is wrong is =
Call lightnings MASSIVE damage
Alweon2001-04-17 22:52:19
I have to agree with Lochdale, Vorlin, and Ulrika here. Since I have moved from hardcore to part-timer I notice my skill level dropping significantly but my laxness about death increasing. I just take this game for what it is worth to me lately, and that is a way to pass some free time when I feel like it. Won't be back for about 25 days since all the chars that I want to keep are retired and most of them I will reroll. If I come back at all... I do however read/comment on some of these logs and its nice to know that not much has changed in the last while =p Btw, Ulrika is a good guy, and if he labs with who he groups with then he is HB.SE =)
Stormblast2001-04-18 00:08:15
Here's an example for those that think "if it's in the game, use it to it's max extent". Thieves got a skill poison which could be a kind of a bonus to a backstab that won't kill any1 on full hps. Warriors start using it in groups of 3 smiters/pounders, so it often happens that a char that meets them ends up dead fast with nothing to do. Envenom gets downgraded (or using it gets so ridiculously tedious) that the skill can be marked useless. Thieves have one good skill less, the warriors feel a bit annoyed but go looking for another "not quite a bug" feature that could be used for fast kills. If you support that kind of acting you're basically destroying the game, that is trying to emulate a world that has it's own balance, but is at the same time dependant of how 10-20 most known pkers act. If the only way you can enjoy the game is destroy it, fuck off.
Bulldozer2001-04-18 00:50:26
the only two things i have whined about and will continue to whine about are sundeath, and people with a 250% advantage on my poor link :-(
Alweon2001-04-18 01:38:24
Here is an idea. Make envenom unpracticeable for a character without a base dexterity greater than or equal to 17 or 18... Problem solved =p
GORETONGUE2001-04-18 02:27:45
The suggestion has been made to make poisons applicable only to weapons of TYPE_PIERCE -- or, alternately, to weapons of (weight <= X). The response from the A+ was: that makes no sense because one can just as easily apply juice to a zweihander as a dagger. WELL HOW ABOUT THAT. Imps using realism to keep the game fucked up. Dont ya LOVE IT!@
Ethar2001-04-18 05:34:44
this is the hb.se pontus! not the other pontus, but he's still a cool guy and no newbie
Ethar2001-04-18 05:38:00
not that he plays there anymore im thinkin...
faint2001-04-18 09:21:24
i agree to 99%!
BUT the last 1% is really fucking lame, tho people still should stop whineing when dying but i cant say anything cause when i go fight solo with a warrior for xample, his bash is faster then mine and in walks 4 mages and insta rip me...
What could i have done? i dont think mume should be a game where you dont DARE to eat a fucking bash...
but maybe thats just me...
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