*sob* Why did it have to be YOU? *sob* You is too young to die. *sob* Why couldn't it have been ELMO? *waaaaaah* Sumbody KILL ELMO! I need some cheering up. KILL KILL KILL.

nothing new

I deny EVERYTHING! As you can see, it wasnt me who either arachniad or psyloniad!!! i met those orcs (who were snotty and liart) near lb and they made me use the other stuff, venom or so, after you were already poisoned. blame snotty!

Norsu is probably using psylonia in his group to stop storeporters. *wink*

that looke SO fucking familiar

This just goes to prove that even loosers can be winners if they have poison on their side.

Rain, try atleast ALITTLE to come up with a joke on your own...you're so damn..unoriginal

Fuck blame snotty. Blame all of you. Was that entertaining? Did it feel good
to 'outsmart' or 'outmaneuver' an opponent? 4 vs 1 wasnt good enough? You
gained experience points totalling maybe 5-10% of what was needed to gain your next level and its 1 extra hit point and 1 extra practice. You gained some unknown amount of 'renown' in a defunct fame system. You gained perhaps 20 gold
coins each. But was it rewarding? If this was the entirety of the game, would you still play every fucking day for the same amount of years you have already wasted here? Did you get to brag about the heroic kill to your internet pals?
Would any friends you have in the real world think that you had done something
special? Yeah. I thought so. Well, continue on with the way you play. There must be some special rush to it. I do not envy nor admire you for it however,
and if you all chose to quit playing here, none of you would be missed. I play this game for the challenge of an intelligent opponent, and would prefer to not have him totally helpless or linkless. What was the action that I took here that challenged you? ahh.. walked into the room you were standing in. yes. great challenge. glad to have battled. happy hunting and all that.

Doo orcs like biscuits? I got a free biscuit fer anybody who KILLS ELMO. I gonna throw in a pie if ya poison him first so KILL ELMO and win valuable prizes. KILL HIM, GODDAMIT, KILL HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well since everyone uses storeport nowadays psylonia is a must for darkies!

Yep, i found it fun and entertaining to kill you. And i'll do it again! Horrible, isn't it? I'm such a DORK! hihihihahahahohoohohohh

storeport? where do you see this in the log? what relevance has it to the discussion? could this elf have storeported after going icy? Will superman ever
regain his powers..

IT ROCKS! NORSU ROCKS, dont let them tell you otherwise!

Nobody even knows who Feanaro is, so if he left he wouldn't be missed either. So, why play a game where nobody even knows who you are after hours and hours of playtime?

Should of swam, but DIE PUKE DIR

DIE rather

Its called pointing out your idiocy Norsu. If you can't grasp that go back to school for a few years.

NO SKILL, NO CHALLENGE = the MUME7 Orc.

You don't know who feanaro is?

feanaro isn't feaenor

I believe i was a warlord and used poison in mume6 too, and I also believe STEELE's orc grishelda was an active poison user. But all such things are uninteresting when there is an opportunity to whine. Then you just jump at it!

I find Everhate and Norsu's comments amusing in this log. I'm going to assume it was actually them. Both know this was extremely lame so they just go for the heart of stone reply *shrug*. It's interesting that in this situation you would need a pbs, an escape through water, or draughts/vellum to survive, or you die. Since Feanaro had no eq his only chance was to go through Mitheniel(sp) and hope that it didn't take Norsu 5 or so ticks to find him, which is bloody unlikely. I shouldn't talk tho, cuz one day i redshirted for Posh + 2 shamans in blackbreath group, was rockin! Oops guess I got off topic. BLOOD FOR SAURON

There's nothing inherently wrong with using poison. What's wrong is that 4 warriors can spam around using it, when most thieves can't afford the pracs :P It should be harder to learn it out-of-class or something, and rem poison at legend level should remove *all* poison effects. Or make poisons viable for only piercing weapons? (And, yes, I know that would be unrealistic since massive swords make big wounds too, and even conc weapons draw blood easily) Just my 2 cents.

Of course the reply is a shrug, what else do you want, think i'm gonna turn into a hypocrite like the rest of ya and say i'm sorry i killed him with poison? ROTFL. I leave that to people who do it much better. At making sad excuses for what they do, i mean.

Ever notice how Norsu always dodges criticism with a whitty remark about whining?

Norsu, you're already a hypocrite. You sit here and call people loosers that only get kills because of suprise when a good portion of your own kills are nothing more than poisoning people unlucky enough to be cause outside a town without 10 draughts or premade antidotes or some vellum scrolls. You sit and bitch whenever someone does fight you in an X vs X fight even when half of those others are poorly equiped. Obviously in NorsuLand (right next Never Never Land) a Lev83 Orc with frags and poison and a few scrolls is exactly equal to a Lev26 puke. That new math they teach now... You know exactly what fights you can and can't win and just never fight the ones you can't. Of course this is so you can run a few rooms and spam something like "rotfl you bring six!" or one of the other patented Norsu Overkill Whine comments. This all serves as an outlet for your bloated ego. The End.

I use to whine too. Then it came clear to me. When Norsu is on, play darkie;
when NSL is on, play whitie. When both on; read logs. Sadly they
always seem to be on.

Wait, now I have to complain. How come a character who was
able to get levels 70-80 in the time of the previous 2 complaining?
Is this guy Daum? How come a pack of superwhities have
set up camp outside DT? Why doesn't anyone see the problem with
poison is it's too fast and only works good when used by superlinked warrior groups of 3. Everhate is right, but he needs to add players who have outgrown MUME and feel the game is unfair if they aren't NO.1 warlord 99.9% of the time.
These guys are great players but do you have play so much and do you have to use the same tactics you were using 2 years ago? You only ruin the game you use to love.

Er...Rain, I have seen you in a puke poison group very recently. You are on the puke side and you still use it. Guess all the other overpowered aspects of puke are not enough for you. Of course, your M.O. is spam narrating, attacking ppls whilst afk and generally whinging like a girl when you die for some reason that has nothing to do with your own mistakes.

I've used poison once in probably the past 6 months. Obviously thats exactly the same! Right. And nevermind that poison vs orcs is about as useless as stabbing with a butcher knife. Wanna know why I attacked you afk? Cause nobody would have left me sitting afk. Mochomurka sure didn't when he killed Daevia afk. Don't go afk and you'll be fine.

I find it interesting that Norsu chooses to whine that he is unfairly accused of being a trapper/poisonuser/grouper which outnumbers his opponents and then goes and groups with these kinds of ppl. AND then whines and complains when others use similar tactics against him. and Steele is only mostly right
no skill, no challenge = mume7 orc warrior...

The guy commenting above need to get himself a sense of irony .... And why no name? ashamed of yourself? boo!

Feanaro said it well. Big comforts.

Again, Norsu can't respond to a single thing. Yawn.

A Player (whom i dont know) wrote this in his review of MUME at the Mud Connector:

"The average age of players seems to have decreased over the years and many of the new players consider mume to be a sort of text-quake"

Sadly, he is right!

A Player (whom i dont know) wrote this in his review of MUME at the Mud Connector:

"The average age of players seems to have decreased over the years and many of the new players consider mume to be a sort of text-quake"

Sadly, he is right!

*a dreadful Orc* apologizes to Arda for his very existence!

oh hush you lazy pukes. make some bottles!
...

rain is so noisy, poison him too !

laugh rain, what do you want me to respond to seriously? Your whine that i cant kill anything without poison? Shure, i have some 1100-1200 pukes in trophy, a couple hundred has decayed, maybe 150 of them was with poison, a bunch in various traps, a couple who said they were linkless without flags, some who drowned or dt and entered my trophy, most died along roads etc to spam/low moves etc. What's there to say? What is it you want me to RESPOND to? Your saying i cant kill anything with poison? How do i seriously respond to some bullshit that you have to be a retard to believe in?

you guys are retarded...make antidote vials, they are simple....you should only complain if you die linkless or b/c you have a shitty link, otherwise shut the fuck up already.

No, blame the Ainu, they make the rules. Norsu is as innocent as his victims! ;)

No, blame the Ainu, they make the rules. Norsu is as innocent as his victims! ;)

bah.. orkar inte! hehe..

Ok... will the cute godses claiming psylonia etc. can't do upto 40 mana/moves please reread this log... he was BURNING mana to icy, my guess some 70-80 mana, and moves...

Well said Feanaro, and comfs.

You died to poison, bu-hu. Even if you die like a bitch take it easy, skip the flaming and re-eq and enjoy yourself. If you can't take a death you shouldn't move east of Shire during night.

Heh why u pukes whine so much.If we can use poison then why not to use it,if u all storeport,store-call etc.Why u take dying so hard.Die whit honor =).

Both sides have their version of overkilling, but the balance is still far in favor of the pukes (and probably always will be). As powerful as Norsu's group is, you don't see routinely clearing out bree and whacking people as they log in, then moving on to fornost and clearing it out, then whacking people as they log in, then clearing the shire and...you get the point. But any orc or troll knows the feeling of having the SuperPukes(tm) camped in their home towns. /par/ Join a group or die to a group, mume is not a mud for solo play once you leave the 'safe' zones. I don't like it, others don't like it, but that doesn't change the facts.

You can walk solo, just pick the correct fights and fitting areas. Ppl whine because they can't have it all, no?

If I remember it right Scrape sad it all. - You don't play mume to give fun to others but to have fun yourself. - So if you like poisoning overkilling I don't think this whining will help any. It is just easy way how to get kill. Only thing why i don't use poisons is that i'm too lazy to get ingredients and mix vial every 20 min rl. Thats all, if Norsu likes it and it isn't boring for him let him be and just think about him anything what u want :-)

Poison sucks, people that use poison suck to. I use to suck but i didnt
like what i saw in the mirror so i quit. I urge everyone else to quit to
since obviously the moron gods wont remove this poison shit. Just
becuase its in Lotr huh? My god!

The point is still that you can skip using lame gamefunctions even if they exist. "others do this or that" & "its there, so i use it" etc arguments are childish. The problem is that people have different opinions about what is lame. However if noone argues for their own opinions, nothing would ever change. I think all agree that this was lame though. Norsu told me he never lost more than 20moves (or was it mana?) from being poisoned, and that he never got kills only due to poison. harr harr

the only thing i have to say here is fuck you and your attitude everhate, id miss feanaro a hell of alot more than you.

I miss my old pet rock Ethar. Sadly enough, even being a poor little rock in a box, it could still pkill better than you and carry out much more interesting conversations.

Nothing wrong. Poison is part of the game, and I will use it too soon! Beware!

Pure scouts are a joke without poison... the only other way to kill is off of a lucky stab on a low hp opponent.

Hmmm..... So this should be my average MUME session?: Mix antidote vials (15), group (4+ followers of vary classes), walk around, pkill solo people, get back into rdell/bree, mix more antidote vials, group again, rent. No thanks. Oh yeah, gotta love the selfishness of that "I'm not here to let anyone else besides me have fun." Motto of assholes.....

Charging is completely overpowerwed. chargerwhores should be demoted!

I never heard of no Everhate guy before but if he would KILL ELMO he could be famous and win a biscuit all at the same time so KILL ELMO and maybe not everybody would be saying you are all mouth. KILL ELMO!!!! KILL HIM, GODDAMIT, KILLHIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why does your every retort have to deal with saying 'but im a better player!' seriously, i dont care if you have any skill (im not saying you dont, cause i know you do) but i hate people who make comments like yours about feanaro. who the fuck are you to say that no one would miss him?

I'm sick of everyone bitching about overkill this overkill that. Norsu was out looking for some pk, he comes across an elf, just because he is 4 and your 1, Why should he think, wait a second this is unfair I should let him live? Fuck that.

I think Durcano and Everhate must be the same guy cause they are both ugly, dumber than dirt and I ain't never seen 'em together. Don't expect much from them. They ain't got much to give but attitude and bad breath.

Dear Juston,
Why were mume darkies created? To let those who wish PK.
So no.. your mume session should be following - mix antidote vials, get 4+ do some smobs(and possibly
die to a darkie ambush BUHAHAHAHAAH) and quit.(or rent if ur lucky)

Want to pk? Join the dark side and choose weather to use poison or not 8P

What does me using poison w/ Grishelda have anything to do with what I remarked? Stop dodging the points mentioned above. It's overpowered if used with a group of four. The point I'm making is it's just not fun for the "average" breelander. Sure, Grunge and I could walk around Arda and make a few brown bottles. Sure, the average *experienced* player can dodge around and escape the wrath of poison. But, what about the 85% of the rest of the mume population who are getting ratehr pissed. I know you'll probably remark by saying I don't play this game to please others, but it's just plain idiocy if you think it's balanced the way you "exploit" it. And Norsu, I'm not just poiting you out. There's a bunch of others out there who do the same thing. And, when Grishelda uses poison, I tickle people with my arrow or dagger and they laugh at how "affected" they get. It's the good ol' hammer/warsword that rocks any puke with poison these days. I'm off my soap box. Have fun!

What does me using poison w/ Grishelda have anything to do with what I remarked? Stop dodging the points mentioned above. It's overpowered if used with a group of four. The point I'm making is it's just not fun for the "average" breelander. Sure, Grunge and I could walk around Arda and make a few brown bottles. Sure, the average *experienced* player can dodge around and escape the wrath of poison. But, what about the 85% of the rest of the mume population who are getting ratehr pissed. I know you'll probably remark by saying I don't play this game to please others, but it's just plain idiocy if you think it's balanced the way you "exploit" it. And Norsu, I'm not just poiting you out. There's a bunch of others out there who do the same thing. And, when Grishelda uses poison, I tickle people with my arrow or dagger and they laugh at how "affected" they get. It's the good ol' hammer/warsword that rocks any puke with poison these days. I'm off my soap box. Have fun!

why is it illegal to do some things in mume? I am actually in favor of norsu pking to give darkies a little respect for once. With lowyn and elmir running all over arda hunting with there maxed out chars and super super links. It nice to know us darkies have someone who can fight back against pukes. Darkies are always outnumber if you check who max you will have 50 darkies on. Most of the time you have 5 legends orcs 3 legend bns and 3 legend trolls (mostly due to the fact they sundie). Also we have sun that weakens us. We don't have a rivendell that pukes can't enter, or a horn to blow:). Poision isn't even an advantage if pukes weren't so careless. How many orcs leave noc without a draught or 2? Reason : you will die moveless. When other pukes nar norsu is on why do you leave bree or rivendell without a brown bottle? Your own carelessness isn't norsu's fault. Overkilling is your perception. I don't think i have ever been overkilled(meaning i'm a victom, there was nothing i could do) I have been outnumbered but i chose to fight and have died, big deal. Groups of orcs always have existed and always will complaing won't help group size go down. One thing that would help group size go down is remove rangers on arda then solo orcs like i would roam all over arda killing pukes from bm to rivendell. As it is mobs are too strong, pukes are too overpowered, for now i will group to fight you. I suggest you do the same.

Look im know im a poisoningeqhoardingolameroverkillerwhore but I have something to tell you all....I am gay, and those 3 orcs who were following me were my butt buddies. I love it when they stick there dicks in my ass it makes me squeal like a little school girl and also me and Hamfist are in love!

Zuh? I wasn't talking about pk as a whole, I'm talking about the whole poison group smiting those poor erstwhile people who dare to walk past neni without a good 10 antidotes. Stepping out of Bree to get smoten by 2-3 different poisons isn't a fun MUD, in my opinion.

What an amazing amount of comments. Wow. (Is it only me who cracks up seeing
comments from "A dead elf" and such? :-P)

Ya have no idea Tushie. 50 orcs on is equivalent to like 100+ pukes on. Ya see, for the most part, orcs are experienced players. There are so many legends these days on the whitie side that doesn't know anything past neni. So, what ya were saying is hogwash! A group of 5 max eq'd orc warriors is a disgusting site to see. They all gain ob for each gr member grouped and all of 'em have a clue. I actually consider it a challenge playing on the whitie side these days. It's hard!

Dear, Justin!
There is barely any point in poisoning at bree, if you bree legends were to move
abit more east it would have more use.

Die pukescum MUHAHAHHAA!!! Btw, why the hell we have antidote lore? Just for fun?
Seems so coz some ppl just dont understand what good it gives. Blame yourself and
noone else.

Greetings to those that find Norsus's acting tolerable and well even suitable for orc. And others ..well stop whining ... i admit (once more) that getting killed by huge groups can be very annoying ...so what? deal with it or give up playing. Once more for Gods sake ... do you really think that rpg involves only one vs one fights ...well start playing a sneaker (as i do) If i ever start playing an orc i would enjoy hanging out in huge groups near bree and fornost
...i think that as the orcs were so lousy and miserable characters in JRRT creation...they hated themselves and their master but the fear was greater than hate:)...they had no choice but to gather into huge groups ... This who strikes first and strongly enough mostly won't need to strike again :P
Come on enjoy the game ...show some tolerance towards others ... The one's who have studied psychology maybe know that the most annoying part of other people is the thing that annoys you at yourself :P
And if you still can't tolerate players like Norsu..think of it as you met some fuckup (No offence btw Norsu) in rl ...what would you do ...go to your friends and start whining ... bleh :) Good hunt Darkies :)

This time I really do agree with Grunge and Norsu. Doreth could not die to poison and 12 darkies in moria cause he has a clue. Sorry to say.

PS ...as i was remembered by a friend ... if you think of fellowship in moria
..waht did aragorn say to samwise who had been lightly injured... He said sth like : You were lucku mostly the weapons of orcs are poisoned :)

Some of the people that just whined here said not long ago - Its easy to avoid poison jsut get ingreeds and get the lore or save mana for rem poison.

It is annoying to see people write: Why didn't you have brown bottle, or a scroll? Because it's hard to get the herblore (or kill priest for bottle), and hard to get scrolls. That's like saying to someone in a car accident: Why didn't you have a monster SUV and a huge insurance policy?

Dear Edith, you think im easy to get??!! Think again

No matter how hard the preparations are, you shouldn't be able to kill opponents just cause you meet them.

What insurance policy? I made a recent deal with they guy at National Rent A Tire... You dont know how hard life is man. I drive a car without brakes, I kill a few people. So what?

To solve the problem of having a chance to die when you play, I suggest we go back to the glory day of Muds and rename Bree back to Midgaard and give players the chance to buy recall scrolls.

Its the instant effect that has to be tuned down. Burning to Icy in 1 sec
is way to much and how a brown bottle would saved him in this situation? An
icy tired caster is still a dead caster, even if poison removed.

Save mana for rem poison Skojardu??? You missed the bit where he went from burning to ICY did you in this log??? *rofl*

I agree with Blackfox here - couldn't have said it better.

Glad you two newbies agree then. Using a brown bottle would have cleared up both cases of poison he already had. If you read the log, you may have noticed he had time to go away a few rooms, and cast rem once. With the poison gone he could have instead slowly gone a room or two a second, gotten back mana to cast bob, port, or whatever, and lived. Any questions?

Clap! Norsu rock! Kill!!!!!!!!!!!!

If u don't want get poisoned play a troll but then u can loose 32M xp cause of 10 seconds lag. You choose.

Hrmm Rogon, if you recall a previous discussion we had about poison on another log (448 hps in 0.5 seconds - posted by Vale - currently on page 22 of this logpage) you stated - and I quote - "Almost noone dies to poison, the '3 poisons at once blabla' is total bullshit. Who ever did this happen? I can't remember any of my groups ever giving someone 3 different poisons". So either you have a real shitty memory, you are just plain full of shit, or you should be congratulated for accomplishing something that has just happened on mume for the first time ever! Just imagine the organization and planning that had to take place to produce 3 different vials of poison...please give us your wisdom so that we can all become expert pkers too!

83 - 26 = 57; 57 / 10 = 5.7; 26 + 5.7 = 31.7; legend level = 26; difference = 5.7; level 1 vs level 5; who's gonna win?

To say that having antidote is trivial is misleading. It's trivial for those who spend 24/7 on mume, it's a huge investment in time for those who play like normal human beings. Noone wants to spend a large percentage of their mume time gathering items that might help against an encounter that might happen. Those forced to do so will probably leave, giving us pretty much what we have today: a mud dominated by a fairly small group of addicts that prey on everyone who hasn't wised up yet and left.

If you dont like getting poison, PLAY A TROLL!

Well grimble, that was true when i wrote that, so how is it bullshit? how am i full of shit because some guy gets 3 poisons months after i said noone got it against me? I don't get it. Did i write noone ever will too? hmmm. Or did you think this log was half a year old? My memory works only backwards, i dont remember things that haven't happend yet. DUH.

PUKE DIES clap norsupack. KILL PUKE AND MANGLE BODY! nod tushie. nod everhate. nod guano!!!! POISON IS GOOD. LIVE PUKE IS BAD!!

Read a bit closer Rogon, I didnt say you are full of shit - that is just one possibility. Its quite simple Rogon, I'll state it more plainly - ONE of THREE possible situations occurred. 1. you didnt remember doing this in the past. 2. you are full of shit. 3. you used three different kinds of poisons for the first time ever. - If it is as you say and #3 is the case, well then congratulations on your pioneering of a new use of the envenom skill for the greater glory of hugegroup pkers everywhere.

The huge number of reactions to any post that has to do with poisons suggests that something is wrong.

Or that there are more crappy players on Mume then ever before...

Grimble, when did you become such an imaginative whiner? To whine with such style and grace? The rest have alot to learn from you.

Well thanks for the compliment Rogon, but I wasn't whining about anything on my previous posts in this log - I was just trying to clear up a case of hypocrisy that I noticed regarding this log. I do believe that the current system of poison is ridiculous and many of the "warlords" of today who think they rock wouldnt amount to jack shit without poisoning or constantly grouping with a poisoner. I do not bitch about it much anymore though except when I find that someone who uses these lame tactics whines at others for using other equally lame tactics, or if a person denies using a certain tactic, and it gets clearly shown on a log that they use the same tactic they denied using. In this case, I made an argument about overpowered poison with a reference to an orcgroup using 3 different kinds of poisons to kill someone about a month ago, and you acted like this was competely unreasonable because it was "total bullshit". Now we have proof that you use the exact same behavior that you described as "total bullshit" in a previous log. I'd say thats the definition of hypocrisy.

Vorlin hit what I was trying to get at. I'm not too keen on playing MUME beyond my usually 2-3 hour limit/day. And that time is better spent leveling and gathering gold than gathering ingredients that might not load for a lore I don't have for an encounter that might happen with people that could or could not use a particular skill designed for a class they aren't playing.

Juston makes a very good point, although probably quite by accident. I think what he is saying, in part, is that it should be a lot easier to get antidotes since it is so easy to get poisons. That's how a certain balance is created. With the widespread and ridiculous use of poison (however unrealistic it is), the antidotes should be as common as biscuits (but maybe not quite as chewy).

Since when have ya become such a pompous ass Jeff? I remember the time ya actually cared about game mechanics and fair play. Now all ya do is insult people and spam follow Norsu. Crap if ya ask me.

Could turn it around and ask when you became such a whiner steele? I remember a time when you seemed to have fun playing mume, now all you do when you're around is complain about everything.

juston that was fucking funny

As a bonus for anyone who's made it this far: I consider the tactics of Norsu & Co. to be far less obnoxious than the groups that bash trap. With Norsu & Co., you know what you are facing, there is no deception involved. With a bash trap you are basically being tricked into thinking you have a legitimate fight when really you are just being set up for a wizkill gangbang. Poisoning can be prevented, or even lived through (though tough with such a powerful group), bash trapping is pretty much 100% sure death. *steps off soap box*

Bah poison use IS realistic read the fakking BOOKS!?

What includes "everything?" Only thing I complain about (and if you want to call it whining, so be it) are inbalances. I actually care about the structure of mume and how it should be played in all fairness. All you seem to care about is your exp and wp. I fail to see how you could even judge me since you, Rogon, classify yourself in a league of your own.

And also, when was the last time you even "played" with me? Don't assume, it makes an ass out of you and me. I wouldn't even consider spending an ounce of my game play with your play style.

Spam follow Norsu? We get a chance to group like what, 2-3 times a week maybe these days? I mostly play at night, and 90% of the time I am leading. And if you don't like me calling you an archpuke Steele, stop being one! You used to be a darkie leader, now you are a whitie follower. It's disgusting for someone of your skill.

FOLLOWER? I can't remember the last time I followed someone, less I didn't have track. And, as for playing darkie, I don't want to since I don't like more than half the players on that side. Call me an archpuke if ya want, but 'til the losers stop playing darkie, I'll remain will I'm at.

Maybe during the day the people you don't like are on, but when I play at night you got no exscuses Steele. It's mostly USA orcs and trolls.

Naturally i'm never grouping with you steele, since you turned into an archpuke at the same time you turned into a whiner (hmmmm!). I'm just judging from narrates i hear as immo and comments here.

CRAP! I can't group with you ROGON! I'm quitting mud. *sigh*

Actually what i said was we never group because we dont play the same side, didnt say anything about "cant" "dont want" "etc". Just the simple fact that an orc and an elf will never group with eachother. Now get over that ego of yours will you? :?