Backstab skill
posted by Faean
2001-08-02 13:58:38
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It is no PK-log, just wanted to see what other players think about that. I am a
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
You pierce a grizzly bear's body extremely hard.
A grizzly bear tries to hit you, but your parry is successful.

* S C a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
You flee head over heels.
PANIC! 
You couldn't escape!

* S C a grizzly bear:Fine>
A grizzly bear swiftly dodges your attempt to pierce it.

* S C a grizzly bear:Fine>
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
A grizzly bear swiftly dodges your attempt to pierce it.
A grizzly bear strongly hits your body and tickles it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
A grizzly bear swiftly dodges your attempt to pierce it.
You swiftly dodge a grizzly bear's attempt to hit you.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
You pierce a grizzly bear's left hindleg hard and tickle it.
A grizzly bear barely hits your right arm and tickles it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl

A grizzly bear tries to hit you, but your parry is successful.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
You strongly pierce a grizzly bear's body and tickle it.
A grizzly bear tries to hit you, but your parry is successful.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
e
You flee head over heels.
PANIC! 
You couldn't escape!

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>No way! 
You are fighting for your life!

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>
You flee head over heels.
PANIC! 
You couldn't escape!

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.
You swiftly dodge a grizzly bear's attempt to hit you.
You strongly pierce a grizzly bear's body and tickle it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>
A grizzly bear strongly hits your left foot.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab cub
Backstab whom?

* S C HP:Fine>w
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Kraagh narrates 'any darkies tharbad ?'

Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
You strongly pierce a grizzly bear's right hindfoot and tickle it.
A grizzly bear hits your left leg and tickles it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Oops, you were seen!
A grizzly bear strongly hits your body and tickles it.
You pierce a grizzly bear's right hindfoot hard and tickle it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>fl
A grizzly bear hits your right foot very hard.
You flee head over heels.
PANIC! 
You couldn't escape!

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Fine>
You flee head over heels.
Abandoned Mine Shaft
A dirty shovel is lying on the ground here.
A crazed dwarf is here, drooling down his beard.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
A huge, poisonous spider is here.
Exits: East West.

* S C HP:Fine>e
Bear Hideaway
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
The corpse of a grizzly cub is lying here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
Exits: West.

* S C HP:Fine>backstab bear
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

Forin narrates 'I managed to decay my align down from sent to well-meaning again *ponder*'

A grizzly bear makes a strange sound, as you place a nasty orkish fang in its back.
A grizzly bear barely hits your left leg and tickles it.

* S C HP:Fine a grizzly bear:Hurt>
A grizzly bear hits your left hand very hard.



Prac list is like this

Awareness              Excellent  Normal     General   
Climb                  Poor       Very easy  General   
First aid              Poor       Easy       General   
Ride                   Average    Very easy  General   
Swim                   Average    Very easy  General   
Track                  Bad        Normal     General   
Wilderness             Poor       Normal     General   
Cure light             Bad        Easy       Cleric       13, Very short
Attack                 Very good  Normal     Thief     
Backstab               Superb     Hard       Thief     
Dodge                  Superb     Hard       Thief     
Escape                 Poor       Normal     Thief     
Hide                   Excellent  Normal     Thief     
Missile                Excellent  Normal     Thief     
Pick                   Good       Normal     Thief     
Piercing weapons       Excellent  Normal     Thief     
Search                 Good       Normal     Thief     
Sneak                  Superb     Hard       Thief     
Steal                  Fair       Normal     Thief     
Endurance              Bad        Very hard  Warrior   
Parry                  Average    Normal     Warrior
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Meriadoc2001-08-02 14:13:42
Lets just put it like this, you are sneaking inside a bear den, grizzly bears are quite higlevel mobs and there are 2 of them. Would you take your chances rl to sneak up on 2 grizzlys in alaska with just a small knife in your hand ....... muahhahha, and btw what are you complainin about you managed to stab it once, just 2 more and it will be dead
Aschit2001-08-02 14:25:26
If you were legend that would have been a lot easier...but every stabber has times when stab seems to suck bad...I have had level 2 players 'easily avoid' my stabs :)
morla2001-08-02 14:30:05
well,what is wrong with this ? i dont think that all mobs in mume SHOULD b easy stab. it gives thiefs WAY to much easy low risk exp. u realise which mobs are easy stab and easy exp and stab them, u skip those ones which sence 90% (ie grey spider ect hehe) _
morla2001-08-02 14:42:40
btw wonders whgat other players think about this_ for me it seems that thieves are massively underpowered vs warriors , i stab a warrior to mid-low hurt. then what can u do PIERCE them dead ROFL , ok with a bhsb and silvertips u CAN hurt warriors down but on 1vs1 u gonna b low moves bad fast as hell. when my warrior gets stabbed unless im poisoned it doesnt matter u can just hit the thief low ;). then vs casters (at least in closable) thiefs seem to easily hurt them. another thing is envenom _ i think envenom should b made alot HARDER to be done by none thief classes and that envenom should have a delay on it. if this delay would change with the size of the weapon this might help prevent huge group smiters instantly repoisoning thier warswords if target wasnt poisoned. what u guyz tink '-?
Zug2001-08-02 14:45:27
i agree, bs seems to be rigged :p
Meriadoc2001-08-02 14:47:27
well morla dunno how much you have tested envenom as a warrior lately, but I made a psylonia vial and it lasted to envenom my warsword like 5 times then it was empty, so it has been changed to the worse for warriors
morla2001-08-02 14:47:46
perhaps if u made envenom more class specific (just like bash for warriors and bob for casters _ u CAN get it but u need quite a few pras and some stats to get it ok) and delays on poisoning that might help thiefs become useful again in group pk instead of just running aroun after wounded/hurt ppl hoping they forget to search.
Niya2001-08-02 14:52:17
Doesn't hurt praccing wilderness + awareness up a bit as thief/stabber either. Not sure that has anything to do with this log though =)
Niya2001-08-02 14:53:34
Sorry didn't see your awareness excellent ;)
morla2001-08-02 15:04:44
yeah perhaps meriadoc but it seems to me to easy for every char to get envenom if they wish other class specific skills are a bitch to get (unless u very high lvl ) mayb u could even have a poison skill which u have 2 prac to increase your chances of poisoning some1 or have this skil linked with envenom perhaps ?
morla2001-08-02 15:04:44
yeah perhaps meriadoc but it seems to me to easy for every char to get envenom if they wish other class specific skills are a bitch to get (unless u very high lvl ) mayb u could even have a poison skill which u have 2 prac to increase your chances of poisoning some1 or have this skil linked with envenom perhaps ?
morla2001-08-02 15:06:19
the skill would b learning how to best hit an opponent thru thier armour to poison them ectect . it would b damn hard for other classes to prac both envenom and poison and have them both at high enough % to poison effectively ;0)
Meriadoc2001-08-02 15:12:12
Well if they just changed the fact that when you pour some on yourself, you actually didn't envenom your weapon, you would gain much to your point
small fluid-sac2001-08-02 15:31:07
I THINK IT MUST BE CHANGED THAT WE MUST HAVE WOUND FIRST TO BE POISONED. I MEAN IF SOMEONE HIT YOU WITH POISONED WEAPONS AND WE GOT A WOUND IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN POISONED OUR ENEMY.
Carmen2001-08-02 15:31:07
You don't post a list of your equipment, but the amount of weight you are carrying seems to affect sneak/backstab success quite a bit. Wear only cloth, no leather except boots/gloves. If you are having trouble stabbing a mob, drop or hide all excess weight. This includes food/water/picks/whetstone and possibly bow + quiver. Another factor which also seems to make a difference (but I'm less sure of it, compared to the weight factor) is covering your light source.
To:Carmen2001-08-02 15:56:23
Covering your light is only useful when you are sneaking up on *trolls* and *orcs* ;)
Not true2001-08-02 16:14:27
Not true, Unknown. And also, bears don't search so why they would
be harder to stab is beyond me. If you wanna be realistic, why do
SCOUTS have the shittiest moves on the game? You track to backstab
and your low moves in like 10 rooms. Ridiculous. But nothing will
ever change because the powers that be could care less about our
opinions or suggestions.
morla2001-08-02 16:21:10
yeah the move thing really really does have to do be sorted , morla has CON 20 (or did b4 mob death sniff!) with gleaming and russet still runs out of moves prety quik :(
Gothia2001-08-02 16:28:25
Showing us your stats would help more than the pracs. Btw, dump escape and get more endurance ?
Hope(retired ca2001-08-02 16:35:22
I think that if u prac sneak to the max you shouldn't have the move delay/extra loss of moves againts you. I mean if you learn to sneak superb you think they would teach you how to do it fast and effectively.
Hope to Small f2001-08-02 16:37:32
If you think that during a whole round of wighting with no woundes given that no blood is shed then your in a dream world. When you get a message that you pierce someones body hard don't you relize that you have just cut them. It may not have been a large cut but i'm sure that it drew some blood.
Unknown2001-08-02 16:40:13
Lose steal and get more endurance...keep the small amount of escape
Faean2001-08-02 16:40:31
Stats are:
Str:15 Int:12 Wis:8 Dex:20 Con:13 Wil:12 Per:18.
Steele2001-08-02 17:03:04
Con is directly related to regenning of moves now. Endurance has no play in it. Your mighty con of 13 means your regenning of moves are terribly slow. Just a FYI!
Unknown2001-08-02 17:10:35
Does willpower make any difference to scout skills?
Old Gideon2001-08-02 17:16:19
Hrm.. been a while, but I recall that I had better luck solo stabbing the spiders
and then the crazed at lev 18/20ish than those pesky bears..

Of course this took a damn while..
Aschit2001-08-02 17:18:02
I was recently told by a V that endurance *does* effect mp regen. Otherwise, I would decay the 41 pracs I piled in it and max out some other skills.
Aschit2001-08-02 17:20:33
Another thing that would be useful for venom (I think) is this: your success at poisoning a weapon depends on your %envenom skill. It's silly that someone with 1 prac in the skill has the same success rate as someone with 8 pracs. (That is, even if you 'spill' while poisoning, your blade is still venomed.) Also, why do you poison yourself when you spill? Unless you slash your fingers at the same time, it should just run off your skin, barring some kind of contact poison. Maybe spilling should waste a significant amount of the poison vial instead?
Knöl2001-08-02 17:21:42
For a successful pure stabber I suggest: pretty low STR (around 13 is enough), low INT,low WIS (8 or more to be able to mix herblores), max DEX, low WIL like 10 or something, max PER (or maybe 1 from max), all you have left on con (might work to have 2 below max, but 1 below or max is probobly wisest).
Things change offcourse if you plan to use bob and or play a BN.
Knöl(orc scout) had 13 6 6 18 20 8 18, and that kind of rocks, but changed now to be able to mix herblores myself since dont like to talk to other people.
Meriadoc2001-08-02 17:24:21
Endurance does effect you move regen I have been told by a friendly Vala, not just as much as it did before, therefore high con is what is needed for regen and also dex/con is what your maxmoves is calculated on, so having a scout with 13 con just stinks for moves and regen. But as all players of scouts anf thiefs know, some days are great for stabbing and some just stinks. It has nothing to do with stats or skills, it's all about the mood of your keyboard or something
Meriadoc2001-08-02 17:27:11
Endurance does effect you move regen I have been told by a friendly Vala, not just as much as it did before, therefore high con is what is needed for regen and also dex/con is what your maxmoves is calculated on, so having a scout with 13 con just stinks for moves and regen. But as all players of scouts anf thiefs know, some days are great for stabbing and some just stinks. It has nothing to do with stats or skills, it's all about the mood of your keyboard or something
Devastator2001-08-02 17:27:11
If you think thieves suck, stop playing MUME. They are the most easy annoying chars on MUME imho.
Meriadoc2001-08-02 17:28:18
Muahhahha, now I understand why some people always post twice, you cannot update this shitty page without leaving and entering it gain first, muahhahhahha crap crap crap
Knöl2001-08-02 17:29:26
Meriadoc: Word!, sometimes everything is easy, next time you get fucked. Something is very weird with the stab-code.
Faean2001-08-02 17:35:02
I am a newbie.. i understood the meaning of stats after the Faean was made. And these stats are default thief stats (one of the three).
blings2001-08-02 18:29:02
Those 2 grisslys are some of the hardest mobs to stab.
Much easyer to stab the beast+stone statue group in amon.
Why ? dont ask me.
Get wilderness to 100%+
Lochdale2001-08-02 18:51:43
Scouts are currently underpowered in my opinion what with the regen changes and all. A good scout needs bob these days or patience for the lores...or both! If there is a group fight, its usually a bad idea to go charging in. 1v1 you can really cause some damge with a good stab and then get them whilst panicking. In the big fights, hide in or around the area and then chase the appropriate bad guy as they flee on hurt/wounded or whatever. Then, when they stop to rest or heal you put in a nice little stab...you would be amazed at the damage that it will cause in those instances. Remember, scouts are not warriors or mages, they should be played solo and with an eye ones moves and a full appreciation on the art of swimming and climbing.
Mariadoc2001-08-02 19:18:41
Aye to that Knöl!
Everhate2001-08-02 20:14:32
I disagree with Lochdale. Scouts are by far the easiest class to play, both for exping and getting wps. You are complaining your 1 stab doesn't kill a warrior Morla? Wah. I'd love an ability that gives you a chance to do 200+ hps on a single attack as a warrior. Thieves are virtually unkillable outside of traps when played by experienced players. Maybe you keep running out of moves Morla cause you tend to spam around like a chicken with her head cut off? Why should thieves have more move regen on foot then people riding mounts? Seems a little silly doesn't it?
Everhate2001-08-02 20:17:00
I meant I disagree with Lochdale about being underpowered, the rest of his arguements are valid. Well, cept that thieves rock mages in big group fights where they stabbed those unengaged mages thinking they are bad ass spamming spells until that dagger comes poking from behind through their chest hehe.
Devastator2001-08-02 21:12:40
Scouts are not underpowered ppl like Nazgum and Relim are so boring to fight against because they flee so fuckign easy, don't tell me it is not=P
Moonshade2001-08-02 21:55:59
Scouts are quite easy to play and easy to survive, but boring to play. Always watch for moves, hide and run if group starts hunting you, run if you fail stab, run run run.... But probably playing scout is the best way for newbie to understand game mechanics, etc
Mojo2001-08-02 23:23:07
ah, what was your weight like? weight has an effect on how often u are seen sneaking:P
Meriadoc2001-08-02 23:46:34
Ehh Mojo did you see a singel Ooops you were seen there, those were just plain failed stabs
To Meriadoc2001-08-03 00:20:22
ehh, try reading the log again? ;)
Meriadoc2001-08-03 09:13:48
Ohh well I was sloppy then, heh tired and pissed off cause darn willow critted 4 times while trying to solo him, he totally failied sneak twice, 1 opps seen and one insta hit, but then there were like 6 sensed the dagger and those are not failed sneak just failed stabs, this is the life of stabber trying out mobs to hard for their level like me
Faean2001-08-03 10:41:11
I don't think they are tooo tough for me. When i conned them. it says i could do it with a needle..
Unknown2001-08-03 11:48:39
When you con someone you only get a guideline Faean. Try killing dealer in NOC ;). Anyhow, it's the place that does it, not the mobs. The grizly with 2 cubs in the 'open' is pretty easy to stab. The grizly at scree very much harder, and those you were trying to kill even harder yet.
Devastator2001-08-03 14:06:11
Btw what is this for bullshit..... soloing willow etc comon =P if u call thieves sucky while they can solo lotsa smobs, find it silly =P thieves can do willow scaly bw etc... =P comon!
Wryak2001-08-03 14:17:46
Watár has 20 con, bad endurance or so and moves last pretty long, I think I've died moveless once and that was because I was too lazy to make draughts w all of my ingredients :P
Meriadoc2001-08-03 14:19:39
ehhh Devastator what are you talking about, I didn't say thief sucks, I just said I was sloppy about missing some info in the log because willow critted my little hobbit as away while I was reading the log. Did you hear me even once say thief sucks, thiefs rock, but are booring to play since backstab damage sucks, or rather the amount of hp the average bn has is now to the stabbers dissadvantage, muahhahha, not to talk about what spanking I would get from any troll but you .......
Elestir2001-08-03 14:21:26
Hmm, if Meriadoc is right, and endurance still affects moveregen (which I doubt), why was the helpfile for endurance skill changed? (It used to say endurance affects moveregen, after the regen changes, it got removed)
Devastator2001-08-03 14:35:13
Sure it does affect moveregen, try spam ford with max wilderness no endurance as troll and with nice wilderness nice endu, see the differnece=-P
Meriadoc2001-08-03 15:10:54
I don't know how it is supposed to affekt but a thery could be that with endurance you get higher maxmoves, wich could be the differance, cause the closer you are to max the better regen, and with higher max you have a longer span of good regen. I must say that this is a most personal theory, and I'm prolly wrong, heh, why do I keep writing shit on this page instead of working, could it be that I'm boored to hell perhabs?? You guys tell me .....
Carmen re: Deva2001-08-03 15:27:07
Thief can solo scaly? I would like to talk to a thief that has soloed scaly.
morla2001-08-03 15:53:25
carmen , thieves can solo scaly (with shoot not stab btw) but its kinda hard if u got ANY KINDA of slow/shaky link. its an easy mob death ;*(
Devastator2001-08-03 16:11:12
Many thieves soloed scaly. Talk to some good orc players.
GORETONGUE2001-08-03 22:00:17
some good ideas here. make venom work only if u get a wound from it OR it is missile weapon....also i think change was made that bigger weapon requires more liquid...also good. in addition, i think pukes should experience alignment loss when they poison a weapon- SUFFER PUKE
Meriadoc2001-08-04 14:41:18
Why should pukes lose align, thats stupid, the are doin it to fight da evil and in love and war everything is allowed
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