Comf, I guess Nienor didn't recall Shimmer's "criminal history" with her ainur.

Only read a bit of this. Can't imagine how sad Bobbie's life is that he's soooo interested in the RL bits of Shimmer's life.

YAWN.

GOSSIP GOSSIP GOSSIP

shimmer is a peice of shit. I think it is pathetic and sad how she has to compliment her poor game play by bitching and moaning against other ppls for the very thing that she fucking does herself ....ther is a reason that she posts her fuycking icq in her whois. She was doing Crossrace shit when i started and she still is ....SAD

After reading this log, some people I know gave me proof of Shimmer cheating too... When I tried to pray about it, I got no responce... =(

Guess I gotta try again tomorrow to see what happens! Maybe tomorrow I get ignored too and then really think there's a problem...

Well, it's no secret that Antar abuses his friendship with a V+ to find out who my chars are! Even when I don't group with any of my old friends whenever i play it! Antar, Uriond, and co somehow mysteriously know it's me! But, of course, I can't prove that, and the gods couldn't really prove this so whatever.

Well, it's no secret that Antar abuses his friendship with a V+ to find out who my chars are! Even when I don't group with any of my old friends whenever i play it! Antar, Uriond, and co somehow mysteriously know it's me! But, of course, I can't prove that, and the gods couldn't really prove this so whatever.

Oops... hit refresh *slap self*

Err Dan, thats because you always act like a moron ... Its easy to point you out.

ok then who do i play, vecna?

Well Im sorry but its totally rediculous what happend. You cant prove who is and who isnt cheating. If you are , you are. But theres no proof of anything and the treatment toward Antar was unjust. Funny how things have gone overboard since Shimmer has been away from her so called love Doomer. Sounds like some one is a little mad and trying to get back at his friends now. Any who, its uncalled for and the gods- imo- ( at least some of them ) dont distribute punishment equally. As if we all dont know all about p Shimmer, *snore* give me a break. That kind of crap just makes me sick.

Btw, your old friends include whom? I think Meagyn knows who you play a lot. Since he's an rl friend of yours... Good source of information there. And my friendships with v+ automatically mean I abuse them and cheat? Wonder what Rogon's life is like then, since I thought he was good friends with Scar. Or Ginlon with Gothmog and the other Brushmen. *shrug*

Dan: Morons.

I haven't seen all sides, but here is my view for what little it may be worth. I have grouped with Antar many times. I have always found him to be very fair, and I have actually had him explain to me (when I first started) some things I didn't know were illegal. He made sure I knew the rules and I never once saw him cross them while we were grouped. I have a personal list of 4 individuals I would follow anywhere and trust completely. Antar is on that list. I am not saying he hasn't made mistakes I don't know about, I just feel this is unfair from the looks of it considering what I do know of him.

i didnt read all of this... but HOLLY SHIT, u can tell from the beginning how this game has become a mini United States with its shitty ass corrupt government. Dear god! why the hell do u gods care so much? people(gods) who actually interrogate people about ther misdoings must have no life whatsoever, but i bet they feel big and mighty since they can have power over someone on a game. prolly little pussies like me in real life though(though i stand up for my shit and dont get any), think im done :).

Let's see, you admit asking a Maia for cross-race information "without thinking you'll get an answer". I tend to think that that alone justifies -2 levels and eq eaten. You might be playing fair and mostly by the rules, but why ask others to cheat?

I've never understood people posting long logs about their demotions, it seems like they are begging for sympathy from others but almost always it backfires and everyone gets to see that they didn't get demoted over nothing. If you've got the standard complaint "Look what they did!" - that doesn't automatically make you the "lesser cheater" and lets you loose - back it up with something substantial and we might have a look at that as well.

- Námo.

oh yeah, *comfort* antar.. pretty damn lame if u ask me, just a bunch of bored gods decide to have a little chuckle!

*giggle* I can see that Fezz didn't react the way I predicted :). It seems I'm part of a "shitty ass corrupt management". It's not fun to hear such comments.

The guy obtained cross-race info before, used it before and - see this log -
doesn't deny it. All he can say is 'yes I cheated but others also cheat, and you
can't prove it'. It beats me why anyone even sympathises with him - how would you
like it if this form of cheating was turned against you? In this case it seems
irrelevant who he's done it to, as he's done it before (e.g. in the Shriek/Uber case
mentioned in the log) to players who weren't in any way associated with Shimmer.

The levels and eq isn't an unjust punishment. It's a shame the traveller's position is lost as a result of the demotion, let him have his tps back. Adara, who directly/indirectly caused all of this should really take the brunt of the blame.

People cheat and get away with it - and it is not just at all. I once tried explaining to an otherwise kind guy that by cheating he shows lack of respect for the players that do not cheat, in particular when the cheating ends up with taking the equipment from the noncheater. He answered "True, but look at how many people drive too fast." I thought about it and realized that he's right, cheating in the traffic risks the lives of people and in the very worst cases on mume, people lose equipment and a bit of xp.

(I'm bored, so I am spam commenting) Yes Namo, I am showing you what happened looking for sympathy. But I find it highly odd that someone who commits cross-race so often (Shimmer) would complain when someone else took part on it (even if unintentional on both parts of crossrace info). And of course I could have denied the entire thing. Namo, what would you suggest I do next time? Have no reaction at all...? As I said, I was in Unqa as Ardent, and it wasn't the best time to be there either, seeing as how there were a shitload of mobs in one room, so I would "alt-tab" over, read it, type something, go back to playing. I don't sit down and take the time to think out everything that could happen from an IM.

Really Namo? The ones I posted did have some affect, and were compeltely warranted I believed at the time as I had no other recourse. Of course Mume's management decisions are so fucked up, that if just 1 god says foul and decided no matter what that's the way it will be, no amount of other higher gods can change that decision. You basically have to please all the little emperors above and hope you don't step on any toes in the process. Not saying all gods are bad, but what does it matter if the good ones have no power to counteract the bad ones?

But it's cheating nonetheless, and in this case even if the cheating seems rather small, I believe management is right in slapping the fingers of the offender. None of us doubt that Antar broke the rules here? Whether the intention behind the cheating was idle curiosity or deliberate planning of a way to achieve a pk we cannot know - I prefer to think the former - I actually believe it too. But management has to assume the worst, in particular if there has been previous cases, and I feel it's quite justified to remove a bit of xp, equipment and tp.

It must hurt you to see other cheaters get away with it, but the answer to that can never be to let the ones who are caught go unpunished. All this being said - I am sorry for your loss Antar.

It must hurt you to see other cheaters get away with it, but the answer to that can never be to let the ones who are caught go unpunished. All this being said - I am sorry for your loss Antar.

In reply to Ajax's post: MUME is somewhat slow when it comes to punishing people, and even more so when it comes to reverting someone else's decision. You can rest assure that any A can overrule any V. There will be a problem when one A decides something and half of the other active A's are forbidden to act to revert it. Things will then take time. Ajax got stuck in a lesser management crisis which was rather unfortunate for him. However, Ajax case wasn't about being demoted (as I remember it?). I still think that it could've been better solved in mails.

i remember gettin morgul valed on a character for something i did on another one its just bs :P

I smell backstabbing.

One more thing to add - LAUGH @ BOBBIE! LAUGH :)

I'm amazed at how much u guys know about who dated who rl on a fuckin mud....u crack me up...btw coulda been worse even tho it was a lame reason for demoting

This is to Namo. You killed off my bros and I because we had a thing called LAN which is some thing for people to cheat from. The reason I quit MUME was because of the many jerks on it, ESPECIALLY management!!!!

I've wasted my life with this game, now I'm sitting here reading logs all day long! And by the way, this is actually the player of the once existant Dox.

yaaa ... that was good question. When you demote all labs players for the same reason ? They can have cross-race information too. And without asking. And .... why you must lost with levels too tps. It's stupid.

Gig, what made me laugh the most is p(Adara)'s innocent behaviour [stupid newbie]. It's just a GAME..., follow the RULES..., so that we are all HAPPY. hourah!

fair play sucks!!!

Uh, way too many private tells here. You should had cut them..

Well, sometimes warlords get away with "but no1 died so no punishment needed" or they didnt know about the rule.. though they where #1 on warlord list. Im just refering to a time i lost link lb. Smrthilav group notiched i linkless killed my horse and gave me corpse, then when i reconnected they started hunting me down.. getting low moves fast cause i didnt notiche i had extra weight. Barely made it to rd cause i also meet other darkies on way, and then was told i had corpse on me. I dont like cheating at all...

Maybe I missed something, but which rule did Antar break?
From what I have read it's clear that some Ainu broke rules by giving him cross-race info. It's also true that he asked for more, but since when is asking ainu whatever question against rules? I believe that if any rule was broken, it was broken by that Ainu who told him whatever he told him.
And if such a rule exists, its very silly. Until the info gives him possibility to abuse it in some unfair way (which I can hardly imagine in this case) why ever bother with it?

Bobbie tells you 'but too many people are starting to forget that this is
text'
Yup, not only players have forgotten it but also gods. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP PLAYING POLICE??? I mean, Antar didn't do a s...t, this is next to most sick things I have seen (top was Stormie and Olorion loosing all levels because of fair duel). Sheesh, if you want all people to follow rules turn this game to chess.

Fuck why post this shit? You sound like a little 12 year old girl, and you look like one too btw

Dan: I took responsibility for that one single incident with Antar many months ago. Quit your bitching.
Antar: Stop asking people for info.
Adara: Oooops.
Thrur: *hug*

Thrur: chess is a cool game

Chess is cool yes, very easy rules and no reason to cheat. As I once told to Dain - if this would be chess I wouldn't cheat.
Alkar:
Here come the law, gonna break down the door,
Carry me away once more.
Never, never, never want it anymore,
Gotta get away from this stone cold floor.

Hahahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaa... Actually I'm thinking about starting MUME non-cheating, I have learned enough during these years to manage by rules:-) *hugs*

Btw mume.net commenting is hard work:/ This should have been song.

Random: I do not censor things on mume.net which are neither spam nor off-topic.
As for the rest, having seen both sides of the story (and one actual physical
log), the only thing I find surprising is that Adara is still a God. If anything, given all the warnings Antar got before, this was rather mild for him
too. As for people who say this is just text game: Yes, and the problem is
that all those PLAYERS forgot it is just a text game, and consider the rules
to just be guidelines. You cheat, you waste Gods' time, we all lose.

Best comment :-). Promise, next version will have
available.

its kinda funny the way that whoever Shimmer is giveing head to atm runs to defend her .....rza ur commends have to respect here

So , what if they were sitting together in a lab, urm, and they just shouted out across the room what they wanted to know info, um, is that cheating? Are you going to accuse them of cheating? Can you prove it? Gee, I dont think you can.. White and Dark, doesnt matter, youre in the same room, just nudge your budy and ask. LAN, Local area network dude, every player on one is a cheater. Why else would you play from one *ponder* .. hm.. To be funny? Or to be a cheater.. No one on this game has played by the rules all the time, and rules are made to be broken, or at least bent.

Yes, it is still cheating, even if you cannot be caught. And yes, there
ARE people who play by the rules all the time. Unlike you think, those nice
people are a rule rather then an exception still, even on MUME.

Just to add: it seems like a lot of people novadays never consider that there
is a living breathing human being on the other side of the planet playing this
game, out to have fun, just like you. If you cheat, you are depriving some
other person of fun - no matter how far he or she is. It should not matter
that since this is an internet game, that person cannot come down to your house
and kick your butt for it. It's just a matter of common courtesy, which still
DOES apply even if you are unlikely to meet a person RL. Please, consider this
next time when you feel oh-so tempted to cheat or to tell someone to fuck off.
Even though this is just a text game, there's no reason for us to tolerate
behaviour that we wouldn't tolerate RL.

well, personally I don't see what Antar did wrong.

He asked a god if a darkie had his equipment, which is a minor fault but not against the rules from what I can see.

The god replying to him was illegal and wrong, but she's new and cute, and should just get a warning.

However, this was very minor. It's not like he was trying to find out some info that could help him. He wasn't asking where shimmer was on mume, what darkies were smobbing, or anything else that is commonly cheated across icq or labs.

The punishment wasn't too harsh, although something like travellers list seems meaningless to me, and if he has a past record for this sort of thing I could see it somewhat justified.

However, its the gods who reply to him who are doing the illegal act, not the player.

*shrug*

So how is playing from my work LAN with a friend any different than playing from a lab? If one is illegal so is the other.

So if you are warned, under threat of demotion, that you should not solicit any
information from a V+ (because you already got this way some illegal info), and
then you do it to an even more clueless newbie Maia, that's ok?

from what i know and others do, elestir is completely right....

Antar, grow up. You have asked ainur for info tons of times. You have broken or tried to break char sep rules several times. You have been warned, you have read the rules, and still you persist, and then you have the audacity to post a whinelog looking for sympathy when you only lose 2 levels? Nienor is about the most fair V+ I have met on this game, and imho she's *too* nice. Ajax, all that Tulkas did to you was undone by V+, Bogger's time on Elbereth's list was also cut short. They cannot, however, do something about Tulkas, even if they wanted to, since that is the privelege of Manwe and him alone.

hehe in my post I said if he had a past record for this sort of thing it could be justified...

Although I still think in this case it seems like such a small matter, asking if someone had his eq? Not sure how I understand this is really wrong. Asking if she was online seems worse, since it has more potential to be abused.

By Nienor's word all internet traffic, including icq and aol is now being monitored by mume police. Phone taps will be coming soon along with bugging your homes for any communication about mume

Nazgum, actually he has a habit of asking questions he shouldn't ask (one of the times it even involved you *grin*). From what I've seen, he's broken every damn rule except for multiplaying. He's had a ton of warnings, but the message just doesn't seem to get into his head. At some point this means that he will be demoted for doing stuff that other people wouldn't be demoted for, *untill* he gets the message.

A. It's all upper-cased. B. In case your parents haven't explained this to you yet, even if you don't get caught, it doesn't make it right.

*NEWSFLASH* This has blown out of proportion. Nienor did not act rashly, and punish Antar on a whim. This was debated for a long time, and both sides of the debate were tabled and discussed. We all agreed that this incident alone did not warrant the punishment given, but what is not shown here, or discussed amongst the mortals, is the consideration that has to take into account a players' past history, multiple warnings, etc., etc. Dont come down on MUME management for being unjust when you dont have all the facts. Dont listen to hearsay or gossip and treat them like facts. As far as I know MUME, Management has never released an official press release regarding this incident, hence you do not have all the necessary facts to formulate an accurate opinion the fairness of the verdict/sentence. ;)

There are rules in MUME and there are rules in RL. There are people who cross the street on red light when there's no car in sight and there are people who wait until green light appeares and if traffic lights are obviously broken, they just walk away and choose another way (they don't want to break any rules). There are also people who kill other people... Sometimes they get caught, sometimes not. IT IS THE WAY OF THINGS! You don't see it? There were laws and rules everywhere for centuries. There are and always were innocent people judged and executed. I know Antar as a fair and friendly player and would never punish him myself. But Nienor did and had right to do it as Antar cheated after all. And why complain about V+ friends? In rl, your friend has access to some information you desire, you ask him, he gives, you take advantage of this information (or you do not, if u want to abide law strictly).
And MUME is just text... not real life. Cheat and maybe you will never be caught, mistype once and you may be valed for something you never knew you are doing... Rules in RL were developing from final punishment for even lesser crimes to lifelong imprisonment as hardest punishment.
Ainur rule this MUD. All you that complain, think of how would it be if Ainur set medieval rules. If you would complain about anything, they would delete your account and bansite you.

My god, what did I do? I have always just read the logs, never commented and now I've written such a paragraph. Don't read it, it's stupid.

And just on a random note: I don't recommend trusting any remotely private
information to Antar. As you can tell from this log, it fast becames public
when it was convenient to him. I didn't notice it at first, but nothanks to you,
man :(.

If a V+ hates you, you can no longer ICQ your friends with a simple "Does dude still have my mda?" I was demoted for something Nienor was told was said in an IM. I never did think Adara would ask anything on mume. And you folks never asked anything on ICQ ever that if you asked on mume might be thought was cheating...? Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure....

Didn't we just go over this and discussed the fact that this is not the only
thing you got demoted for? You don't seem to be denying it either.

Ok, having read through this and quite a few posts.. I now realize I'm too damn old. I happen to get along well with all parties involved or cited in this little drama, so I won't comment on who/what has been done in the past. Except to say....publicly discussing someone's personal issues/lifestyles is low. (I mean 're-posting' them here.. I realize we all have private conversations)

The thing that stands out most to me is simple.. when someone gets accused of something, speeding, farting, cheating etc. and the constant mantra is "so and so does it" or "They do it all the time" etc....it's over. Yes, this is harmless and yes trivial but it was perceived as a 'rule' thus if you wish to debate the merits of the 'ruling' do so.. but not by sounding somewhat childish and bringing others into it. Who cares how many times someone else cheated or bent the rules...you got caught, or rather..one of your actions were perceived to be wrong. This just doesn't concern anyone else except you, probably Adara and Neinor.

*shrug*
__Lobster

Antar, even if no V+ hates you, asking that questing, receiving an answer IS against the rules. And you think it's legal just cause the questions arent asked on mume? hehehe.

Oh and one more thing.. Back a few years ago when ICQ was probably one of the only IM clients etc., 94ish.. I distinctly recall exactly my first impression when "Ding" "User X is online"... I was playing Kreil V1.0 back then and fighting p(Mara/Flatline) though I didn't know it until he messaged me. The first thing I thought of was yikes.. this seems really unfair or problematic.

I haven't had ICQ since then.

To say anyone who uses ICQ or other IM clients are not 'aware' of the potential issues with MUME and using them are just not being honest with themselves.

Discipline..hrm I'm gonna mud, I think I'll disable my ICQ before everyone playing both sides spams me with "Hey..we're doing this"

My two cents :)
__Lobster

i remember what for this justice is lame cause they morgul valed a legend of mine for, me being on a lowbie and trying to kill other players and chewed me out forever fakk em all .P

Antar you said that the log was from July 9th, and that Antar had been valed for at least 15 days which would make that June 24th at the *latest*. It so happens that I know for a *fact* that you were warned about asking questions like these on June 21st, so at *best* 3 days before you pulled of this stunt. If any V+ 'hates' you it's because you're a cheating scumbag with no morals continuously violating rules, which makes management spend entirely too much time on you and your actions. Kenzu violated Rules Istar at least twice and still was allowed to become Maia, wasn't he?

Zorin, I only know it because Shimmer was retired, and had 15 days to unretire. I do believe I was valed for more along the lines of three weeks (21 days), but don't know what day I was valed. And I don't know what the second offense of rules istar was for Kenzu to violate. But he did not stop when asked by Wendy to stop killing her legend home guards, which is only offense I know of. And what was I warned of on June 21st? I believe the incident you are talking about is when I saw Aredhel on and one of her mortals online at the same time. It turned out to be a forced log in, but I did not know this, since Draught was invis to me. Of course I reported it when I saw it. What else was I supposed to do?

Antar's penalty was very modest under the circumstances and given his sordid past. One wonders why he is allowed to continue on Mume at all. At this point he should be close to an account wipe for anything more serious than stealing a biscuit from a newbie.

I didn't catch any comments about what happened to Adara, though. One hopes her god is demoted to level one and she is never allowed to immort another char. Her offense is by far much greater than Antar's and nobody who has played long enought to immort a char would not know that using a god to pass information to a mortal is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. It's an unforgivable crime. An example must be set for others. Some things you just cannot do. Some things just cannot be tolerated. NUKE ADARA!!! NUKE, NUKE NUKE!!!!

OH, and if Antar is allowed to have immortal after this, somebody is asleep at the wheel. Get him out of a position to abuse his immortal access to informatiion, because you know he will. Obviously, he cannot be trusted.

You're a moron, Antar. You knew that the 2 were the same, you knew they were in the same account, thus making it impossible for her to log both in at the same time, implying that it was a force-login. Yet, you stroll around saying she cheated, and no you did not 'report' it. The incident *I* was talking about was the subject of your incessant questions to ainur coming up yet again, this time being about when you asked an ainur directly whether or not Nazgum was still in a specific room since you couldn't search him out but no tracks lead from the room. Even if you had found this to be a bug, you should have *bug-reported* it instead of asking for cross-race info from an Ainur. Incidentally I doubt Antar was valed on the 21st, because then the conversation would have been somewhat different. With Kenzu you also broke the PK-rules in Tharbad as shown in another log on this site.

I didn't realize it was even a matter, until I talked to Staer the day after (listen up folks! We still have nice helpful RETIRED ARATAS around!).
I was on, my legend was on, force-logged-in by Draught - all you had to do was
ask one of them (and receive a reply from either me or Draught, correspondingly) - quick and simple. Instead you chose to bitch to random people
that Aredhel and Nienor are most likely cheating? Please, spare me the
righteous anger. Coming from a person repeatedly proven of cheating and/or
soliciting illegal information, it just doesn't come off well. And it sure
seems like you're mightily free with information when it suits your needs.

So do I get that right? in MUME you get penalized for asking questions? :) And if that was not enough, you get penalized before proven guilty? Mumers when annoyed with that, visit http://www.rots.org

Chuckle. He was penalized after he admitted to his guilt. As for the 'attempt' to break rules. I have yet to see an RL legal system that hasn't illegalized attemts at breaking the penal code. This doesn't seem to be the general case on MUME, but I don't see any problems with this for people that have proved without a doubt that they can't stick to the rules.

so what if you fuck up in the past you get punished again for that that is pretty fuckin lame

Never heard of three strikes law have you? What do they teach kids in american
high schools these days anyway?

Nice of Zorin to release all this information. Who are you anyway?

Eh, nice tab bugs here. Anways, since when is it illegal to ask, in any law system anywhere? Hey god x, can you load me a full set of shining? That there shouldn't be enough to demote someone. Now if God X said sure, loads me some shining, then gives it to me, that would be cheating.

I give you example. If i say "Sidlo has full shining eq", I gave to all of you cross-race information (if you have at least one darkie char). So managment now must punish every person who reads that comment. And I will be unpunished, because i said that information. That was with the Antars punishment. Ainu broke rule and punished was Antar. Why ? And it not depends what he did before. You can't say .... in a past he tried break rules or he broke rules, because it was and it was fault of MUME managment that they didn't respond on it hardly. And now somebody trying to say ... in a past he did "XyZwH" so for this time he will be punish. It's stupid. You must punish him only for the last thing that he did. You can't look in past. But in a Antars case he didn't break rule. Rule broke Ainu. So it just looks like that Nienor was at the cinema on "Minority Report". And for somebody could be Tom Cruise good actor.

Bulba: nod, but there is difference between asking for that info and saying it freely. But in general I agree with Elestir...

Bulba: nod, but there is difference between asking for that info and saying it freely. But in general I agree with Elestir...

Eporedax: yes, but asking isn't still breaking of that rule.

Ajax, it is illegal to obtain classified information anywhere on this planet. Hence spies and industriel spies are jailed for just that. If they manage to gain a position that allows them to attempt to get this information just by asking, they *will* be jailed for that, *especially* when they have a criminal record of it: The criminal record itself indicates that this is indeed what they were trying to do. Think long and hard about this, and you will find it to be true, even if you do have no knowledge of legal systems in general.

Bulba: Antar wasn't punished for Adara giving him information. As for punishment for asking, see my comment to Ajax. If someone has a long criminal record, this is brought up for 2 things in a court of law: 1. In any and every legal system it will add to the punishment of the lawbreaker for the new incident, because it is no longer a 'first time offence'. 2. In any and every legal system a continous display of violating rules will be used as evidence in itself that the offender was in fact trying to break the law once again.

Zorin: Ajax, it is illegal to <<<<<>>>>>> classified information anywhere on this planet

did anter OBTAIN that information or not? he only asked about it.

Uriond, I'm a regular mumer with a regular M. All of the information I have 'released' as you put it is 100% public info, except for the June 21st incident, at which I was present. Antar has a way of talking about everything he does to anyone who wants to listen (be it friends, websites, or whatever) and you know it. Was it nice of Antar to release the information he did in this log? Was it nice of him to try to give the impression that he was innocent or that Nienor was too harsh on him?

Zomb, read the rest of the comme`nt you're referring to?

Come morning, I do believe this whole thing is getting blown out of proportion.
There were some stupid people. They cheated continuously.
They got punished. If Kevin plans to continue on this thing, he may as well
tell us all the other ways he did cheat in detail and how he was punished
for those too, because if all he got before was warnings, this was certainly
a slap on the wrist.

to long to read

i totally don't gett his demote system almarian was created and made into a god via a DIFFERENT player one of the worst ilegal crimes in game imho, what demote did she get? back to level 21 and had to do the quest so she LOST NOTHING she hadn't gained on her own anyways, so that was a fucking joke then something like this is a harsher punishment? sharing charfs should be a deletion of your WHOLE FUCKING account and to jsut demote to the point of where you last played the character is a joke, 2ndly Shimmers nothing but a whore and i tried to warn elistan but he doesn't listen so well, and thirdly bobbie you drink a LOT dont ya i never been with gretna and i dumped shimmer when i found out she was doing shit with torment the same time, he had sent her money or some shit but she wouldn't go see him cause wanted meand it was a fucking soap opera i didnt wanna be in so i told her she was a whore didnt want her anymore, let torment know what was going on showed him lotsa proof since some mutual friend of ours made me which id dint' wanna do :P but he stupidly went with her after that and she come trying to get me back a few days after he went to visit her, she's been with at least some 20 guys off here in the last year and it's pathetic, she's take any1 with a heartbeat no matter if there 15 or 40, i've seen a few friends of mine quit this game cause of her and it really pisses me off, nwo don't bring my name into this bs so i dont have to clear shit up!

Sloshed, before you go talking about my demotion with Almarian, please learn the info, because the information you just posted concerning this was completely wrong, *comf*. (See my post on the next log big guy!) I was under the impression you only had *one* friend here btw. (Who actually stands by you I mean.) =P I think instead of being so worried about what Im doing or how Im playing, you should consider some type of anger management and some educational classes, cause DAMN!

oh and how was it wrong? You ARE a whore you DID indeed get someoen to make your god for ya sooooooooooooooooooooooo :)
educational classes? what do you do for a living oh yes answe the telephone what classes did that take? lol, whatever you say i have taken "educational classes" as you call them, what did you take WHORE101? fucking aced it didnt ya! hehehe

I find it rather amuzing that a good deal of these folks who seem to have a problem with pShimmer, seem to be the same ones who tried to 'hook up' with someone from a god damn text mud. Yes, very smooth indeed.

I don't have a problem with her because unlike a few of you, I'm past puberty and don't get a raging hard-on because some "*woman* kisses you".. Laugh you're all sad.

__Lobster

In another 5 minutes I will start to think that she dumped you because she couldn't understand a sentence of what you were saying.

Well anyways my point is there seems to be no consistancy on the rules of demotion so people cheat and just figure since they haven't been caught yet they won't get in to much trouble, and it seems to work, Minimum demote outta be that character next step whole account, start cracking down and the cheaters will soon be gone.

*giggle Kreil* right on!

Now that was concise and well put sloshy. I agree with your statement 100%.

Well, I agree the punishment was kinda harsh for the original breach, but... firstly, cut out those private tells! mume.net doesn't want to know about Bobbie's sex life, and that of his RL friends (and if I was Bobbie, I wouldn't want it put on mume.net either). Secondly: if I was Nienor, I'd be really pissed off by the way you treated him in the vale. Basically say that you'd happily lie and say anything to get off punishment: well, once you've said that, how can he possibly trust you?

one advice --> grow up

especially you ADARA :P

Pedrag, why do you keep telling Adara to grow up? I'm sure she recognizes her mistake. We all aren't perfect, you know. Most of us here have done some pretty dumb stuff (I can give you tons of things I've done wrong), and I'm pretty sure sooner or later you're going to make an accident too. This event has already hurt her reputation and has probably damaged some of her friendships. I'm sure she regrets it, so why don't we just try to let it go?

nicely put kreil

LOL Kreil, you're damn right tho :)

sloshed is 100% right on the money, and trust me, she is known cheater
and her friends know it too and it happens more often than the Gods would
ever want to give her credit for - sorry, but cheaters get on my nerves.

*nod* Arnin [its just my personal anger against her], *apol* Adara :)

Damn,
how many peeps did p(shimmer) nail. I was also one of them...sigh