After Awful died, there were two dwarves taking refuge in the room east of me. I saw Thurge and two other trolls on where and called them over to help. One more dwarf dies (Toigen), but Mougou managed to get out even with me spamming close rock. He was real lucky. It was fun.

Only fun for big trollfans, really.

i really hope that a v+ sees this. it is a bug that so many mobs can pop in 1 room.

you were like level 1 or why log it?

Frankentroll is a level seven Cave Troll Softskin.

Why on earth didn't the whities scout?

I was level five at the time. It is a cut and paste from scrollback.

I posted because it is funny to see these guys so hyped up with bloodlust that they charge a level 5 troll without scouting and walk into a mob of mobs. (Been there, done that btw.) Poor Awful had a couple of bad flees and wound up going north into several agg mobs. Had he fled east (as did the dwarves), they might have regrouped and had a chance.

I don't know if they tried to scout at all, but as soon rock opened I was up and keeping it closed so they could not scout. I foresaw this relatively remote possibility of a charge. I was surprised that they did not bash or break rock before entering (or even to scout), but I think the plan must was to charge and keep the door closed on me so I could not run away (it was dark outside). I more expected them to break and charge, so I opened the interior doors hoping they would ping pong to death or it would at least buy me time to run off.

It is not a bug for mobs to load unless mobs aren't supposed to load. No reason why this should not be as it was. MUME is sometimes more challenging than 3 legends vs. 1 level 5 troll.

If you cannot see why having 12 troll-mobs sitting in the same room like that is buggy then trust those who tell you that it is buggy. ;)

Geez, Androg, you can't even tell why you think it is buggy just "trust" whoever says it is buggy because, apparently, that is what you think. Just because something doesn't conform to your expectation doesn't make it buggy. Maybe poorly designed (if you think), but not buggy. It would be a bug if the 4 rooms behind the rock was intended to only have a max number of mobs less than 12 (+ the several others in the other 3 rooms) that can wander and end up in the same room but the code got corrupted somehow (probably when A+ are rigging cheats for their pals) and trolls start popping out of each others asses. Now, THAT's a bug!! For the record, I was hanging around there for quite some time and no ass popping was noted (and even though the zone popped, no new trolls popped in that particular room).

Basically, it is working just fine.

Why do you have to start a fight about everything? Don't you get tired of people making fun of you? Now wipe the slobber off your chin and go watch tv until bedtime.

Huh, Frankentroll?

Do you believe that 12 of those trolls in one room could have been the intention of zone builders? Do you think the area would have been opened like this if anyone realised it could have happened? If the answer is no, then someone apparently screwed up and let a bug happen.

Now, there can be argument as to whether this was conscious bug-abuse on your side, but there can hardly be an argument that this kind of behaviour was not supposed to happen.

Yes, Unknown, I certainly do think it is possible. Just because you disagree doesn't mean there can be no difference of opinion as to the builder's intent. Maybe it was a lack of foresight on someone's part to allow so many trolls to pop, but that is not a bug. Poor planning is not a "bug." Nor would I agree that it was "poor planning." It is fine just like that. There aren't always twelve. They pop in the other rooms an wander around a bit. If they aren't in the popping room at re-pop, new trolls pop and can wander out.

It's not a bug, it is a game feature. It could be changed to be more predictible, but why would that be good? You think 3 legends chasing a level 5 troll should not be challenged by even the possibility that the interior is not 100% predictible? If anything, MUME needs more unpredictibility to keep everyone on their toes. As it is, most zones pop the same stuff in the same places over and over and over again. Boring!


And stick your bug exploitation crap in a sack. 1. It's not a bug; 2. It was self-defense; and 3. I did not lead them to the 12 trolls because I knew the room was loaded, I just went in there to rest up and there was a party going on.

Frankentroll, you obviously cannot read, as of course befits a troll. I said that there may be argument whether or not you exploited a bug. I am not going to report you to Staer or anything, for this reason.

And no, there can be no argument about the builder's intent - unless you're the person who built that zone and can guarantee that it won't be changed after this log? Everytime smth like this has happened it has been changed, which shows that they do not want this kind of "features" in the game.

You may disagree with them on whether what happened there was good or not, but I bet you anything that they did not intend it to happen and will change it when they find out.

I suspect my ability to read is outpacing your ability to write. Your reasoning is as flawed as your scrivening.

You need to make up your mind. You say that there can be no argument about a builder's intent, then argue that you know the builder's intent based on inferences drawn from other (undocumented) instances of similiar situations. I give the benefit of the doubt to the builder and start with a presumption that the result is what was intended. The fact that there is nothing wrong with the result merely reinforces the starting presumption.

As to what kind of "features" "they" (presumably management) want in the game is more speculative that the intent of any particular builder's intent for any particular room. The troll herd was not outrageous if compared to stuff running around Moria or the Tbad guards on a rampage or NOC defense or a whole lot of other things that are "features."

The Guild of Warriors
A weapons rack stands against the wall.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
Huor of Dor-lómin is standing here, ready to teach his arts.
A ranger stands quietly here, willing to teach his knowledge of woodcraft.
Arco the Man is standing here.
Exits: north [west] up

BUG?

Yes it's a bug Frankentroll. It's highly unlikely a zone would get approved with a room that is suppose to be like that.

This is just like the orc caves incident where an ungodly high number of mobs popped. Someone probably screwed up when they were setting the mob max.

Oh, and a poor design can, and often is, considered a bug by coders. Poor design = flaws = bugs.

The Huor example is a bug. Huor is a unique mob, so he would not pop multiple times and there is no reason in the world he or his clones would hang around with Arco. Therefore we can infer from our knowledge of Huor and the circumstances that a "bug" was responsible.

Sogard: Maybe yes, maybe no. You don't know. You are just guessing. If this area is a design problem, it's been that way for years. Twelve is the most I've seen, but 6 or 8 (in 1 of the 4 rooms behind the rock) is not that unusual if it hasn't been cleared for a while. Does anybody important enough to do coding actually talk to you? I can't imagine they'd be so loose with their terminology to confuse design errors with bugs. Maybe you are just jealous because I found a lot of new friends and now you want to kill them. Sick, sick, sick!!!

How dare you? I shall obliterate you for exposing my multiplication scheme! Foul beast! I shall murder Arco on sight, for the dear ranger and I have no mercy! Lunatics, you may call us, but we will take over the world. I will create thousands of Huors across the game and therefore it will be destroyed, being overspammed by my codes.

thats a lot of bullshit you are saying:

>> MUME is sometimes more challenging than 3 legends vs. 1 level 5 troll.

challenging? i see no challenge, just plain mob-DT. its fucking insane!!!

>> Basically, it is working just fine.

of course its always fine when you win. would it be fine if you walked into a room with 15 elven hunters? that is the question.

>> It's not a bug

to put an end to this discussion, i was told by a maia that it was a bug. the maia was not high enough to check the code but he suggested that i contact a v+ about it

You've GOT to be kidding. A maia who isn't high enough to check the code is not high enough to know whether there is anything buggy. The qualifying standards for maia has nothing to do with knowing anything about anything. There are lots of places where you should not walk because it's dangerous. That's why I avoid downtown Bree. You just learned of this one the hard way.

You and your sawed-off pals just screwed up and now you are bitter. Bitter, bitter, bitter. All you had to do is scout, but you thought it was all under control 3 vs. 1.

And, it was hardly a mob-DT. Mougoo got out and Toigen might have survived too if there had not been a handy 3-pack of *troll* in the neighborhood. You might have survived too, but the dwarves fled out and left you to die. Your choice of friends is not my fault.

P.S. When you get in touch with that A+, please ask for a name change. "Awful" mimics game output and is illegal.

It was maybe not as much bug as the shovel bug, but as a design flaw it was on par with ability to solo Balrog.

When Balrog was soloed, the loot was taken away from the person who did it.

"I suspect my ability to read is outpacing your ability to write. Your reasoning is as flawed as your scrivening.

You need to make up your mind. You say that there can be no argument about a builder's intent, then argue that you know the builder's intent based on inferences drawn from other (undocumented) instances of similiar situations. I give the benefit of the doubt to the builder and start with a presumption that the result is what was intended. The fact that there is nothing wrong with the result merely reinforces the starting presumption." /Frankentroll.

Obviously it's you who cannot read. What the unknown meant is that he does not know the intentions of that *particular* builder who built that zone, however, he is aware that generally such things are considered bugs. And they're most certainly documented, the fact that you are not aware of that does not make them any less *documented*. Also, for your information, in MUME "design flaws" pretty much equal to "buggy", so it's the same thing at least in MUME, even if it may not be somewhere else.

Also, Frankentroll, afaik Awful still has that name (and will not be forced to a name-change) because he had that name already before the Rules Names appeared. I think it's even written somewhere in those rules that weird names are only allowed for characters who had them already before the rules were made, for nostalgic reasoning, or so.

Rashnak, I wouldn't really compare this to the soloing Balrog, because while *technically* he did do that alone, then *RolePlay-ly* 7 people did it, as in RP sense there shouldn't really be notable differences between PCs and NPCs. But no point getting deeper into the balrog-issue atm, just that - the two incidents cannot be compared on that level.

To conclude my longpost, Frankentroll, just live with it, it was a bug, the end; unless you're a member of those who decide the things, you got no further valuable arguements in this matter.

Androg says: "To conclude my longpost, Frankentroll, just live with it, it was a bug, the end; unless you're a member of those who decide the things, you got no further valuable arguements in this matter." FYI Androg, you're not a member of those who decide such things either, so how did your arguments acquire "value?"

If Awful is allowed to keep the name it is because MUME is corrupt and does not fairly apply rules as to all. There is no rule that old names are "protected." Guaratee if someone logs on an old retired character from 1993 named Manwesbuttstinks there will be a forced name change and nobody is going to say he should be allowed to keep the name for sentimental reasons.

The rest of the post is very informative. It explains why everyone make fun of you. Thanks.

This log inspires me to get summon and all kinds of trap places come to mind.

To :"Unknown 2004-11-18 18:36:29" dude.

Firstly, your name-arguement is totally pointless because names like Manwesbuttsticks weren't allowed even back then! :)

Now to more constructive matters. The only arguement you can think of against my post is asking how my arguements acquire value?! Oh my... you're in trouble then.. because that's not even an arguement. Then again, from the last paragraph it becomes pretty obvious that you're not even trying to have/start one. :)

My last paragraph might have been a bit harsh, but Frankentroll's whining was getting rather pointless. So, if someone saying how things are is something you like to make fun of, then please! I'm not going to stop you, sarcasm and irony has helped many people through their life! ;)

Unknown, the Name Rules are not retroactive. They do not affect names made before the rules were put into effect. If Awful came before the rules, which iirc they did, as i remember seeing that name before the rules were added, there's nothing to argue, period.


Frankentroll, why can't you accept that it's very likely that a room that would kill a person faster than a city defense would be buggy? Do you honestly think the creator ment for it to be that way? Go with the logical choice and say no, they didn't.

Why would it bother you if this were to be a bug and get fixed? Don't want to lose a room that it'd take half a dozen legend(if not more) to clear?

Sogard:
Does it say somewhere in the rules that the name rule is not retroactive? I don't think so. Awful and anyone else with an awful name from prior to the rule should be able to get a change without penalty, but no reason they should be allowed to keep otherwise unacceptable names.

I can accept if it is a "bug." Why can't you allow that it might not be? It is not really "a room that would kill a person faster than a city defense," but rather a room that just happened to configure as it did due to random actions over some period of time. The trolls pop in other rooms and wander. It'll probably be another 600 MUME years before this ever happens again. It was like a phenomenom of nature!!!

Would it "bother" you if this is not treated as a bug and some random element of danger is allowed to exist in the game so that people chasing a level 5 troll should have to scout before entering? Why are they privileged to know what is inside a place before they ever enter? MUME needs more unpredictability, not less.

"but no reason they should be allowed to keep otherwise unacceptable names." /Frankentroll.

Frankentroll, are you simply stubborn or what? Awful is totally acceptable name in MUME... because of certain circum-stances which come with the history of that particular name. Just live with it, no point whining and whining and whining. You disagree with the rules? Fine. Just don't try to make it seem as if you're following and interpreting the rules correctly while you actually aren't.

Androg says: Awful is totally acceptable name in MUME... because of certain circum-stances which come with the history of that particular name.

Androg: You just don't know what you are talking about. There is no "history of that particular name" that makes it "special." You are making that up. Please don't try to disagree with my interpretation of rules by making stuff up or people might accuse you of sucking ignorance.

Tushie: Good luck with that plan. You can't summon antagonistic races and if you get lucky enough to summon someone without an arda ring you will likely end up on sauron's list for killing some level 8. If you are going to do it, though, find a dark room with agg mobs that can't see through shroud. Shroud yourself, turn on night vision, snuff light sources, enter room, close exit, summon sucker and watch him die before he can figure out what is happening. You can also load up the room with agg charmings if it suits you better, but you still want the room dark so make sure they can see in the dark. It's an old trick, but still a good trick. The best time to do it is after some legend you despise dies and you can mob him before he gets an arda ring.

Have fun and good luck with the sauron's list thingy.

Of course there's no particular history which makes that name special. Except for the fact that this name existed before the rules we got now so he does not need a name-change. You're perfectly welcome to have your own interpretation of the rules, just know that in this case it is not the same of those who actually have the power to *force* the rules upon people. And in general from what I've understood and what is pretty much common knowledge is that names older than the rules do not need namechange no matter what the new rules say. Is it that hard to understand and accept? As I already said, you're welcome to have your own interpretation just you're not the one who creates the *actual rules*. OK? :)

Androg spews: "[W]hat I've understood and what is pretty much common knowledge is that names older than the rules do not need namechange no matter what the new rules say. Is it that hard to understand and accept?"

Androg: It would be neither hard to understand nor to understand if true. But you are just making that up. It is like you are sucking ignorance or something. It's not part of any rule. As you seemed at one point to understand, even before there was a rule there were rules (i.e., names like Manwesbuttstinks weren't allowed even back then). Prior to the formal rule, the unwritten rule was arbitrary and capricious. Enforcement continues to be, but there is a written rule applicable to ALL names--not just new ones.

A rose is a rose. Would not Awful smell just as bad if his name were changed to Joe or Bill or Fred or maybe even Sue (that's a nice name)? Get with program, I say, and conform to the rules like everyone else is supposed to do!!!

"There is no "history of that particular name" that makes it "special." "

It's special to those in charge, as androg mentioned, it's (more or less) common knowledge that older names aren't affected by the name rules, how else would SuperDeathFlame still have his name? :)

I've explained that room enough already. If mume's higher ups decide there's no problem with the room, that's fine, but I'd be suprised if the creator(s) of the zone foresaw such an event, because let's face it, that's one hell of a safe spot, you eat a bash and you're pretty much screwed. :)

Saying Awful is a bad name would be like saying Secret is a bad name.

Huor: Secret is a bad name, but it is not an illegal name since it doesnt emulate game output. If you insist, though, I'm okay with forcing both to change names.

You're forgetting 1 thing, Staer's in charge of Law. Staer's American. Staer's a lawyer(or so I've been told). Therefore, his interpretation of rules is going to be affected by his studies in law. A great deal of laws are proactive, not retroactive. Meaning they only affect things that take place after the law is made, not before(such as the ability to sue a bar for not cutting off someone's drinking). The name rules on MUME are proactive, you can figure out where this is leading.

you've got a better chance of getting Estel's* name chaged than Awful's.

* Estel(hope) is the name given to aragorn by the elves when he's taken to rivendell. Having that name would be roughly the same as someone making a character named Mithrandir(grey wanderer, the name for gandalf given by the elves)

j00 fag!

im 1337 g4nd4lf!!1

Sogard, you are sucking ignorance. Please stop.

Staer isn't a lawyer. He's an assisant night shift manager at McDonald's and doing a fine job by most accounts. Just don't ask for extra catsup.

You are confused about U.S. law. Very confused. I think you are comparing the name change rule to an ex post facto law but the concept is inapplicable. Ex post facto laws are not allowed by the U.S. Constititution as well as the constitutions of the various states (I don't think there are any exceptions). What it means is that a law cannot be passed to penalize behavior not previously unlawful. For example, I sell widgets ($5 each or 3 for $10). Congress can't pass a law on January 1, 2004 making it illegal to sell widgets in 2003 and then throw me in jail because I sold widgets in 2003. That would be an ex post facto law. If Congress passes a law on January 1, 2004 making it illegal to sell widgets after that date , I can go to jail if I sell a widget on January 2, 2004. I don't get to keep selling widgets just because I was doing it before UNLESS there is some special provision (usually called a grandfathering clause) that allows people who were selling widgets prior to the law to continue. That would be extremely unlikely for most criminal laws since they get passed to stop bad people from doing bad thing and sucking ignorance, but fairly common in matters like zoning laws where it would cause hardship to make people conform to new laws in certain circumstances.

Your bar example is way off, too. Many jurisdictions have dram shop laws that do make bars liable for what patrons do to themselves and others after leaving the bar---like getting into a car accident or falling down an injuring themselves.

What you and Androg continue to insist upon is that bad names were grandfathered into the game. I disagree, but you are welcome to research the rule and point out to me where it says that existing names are exempted from the rule.

As to Estel, he sucks ignorance and should be banned.

Androg:

> Rashnak, I wouldn't really compare this to the soloing Balrog,
> because while *technically* he did do that alone, then
> *RolePlay-ly* 7 people did it, as in RP sense there shouldn't
> really be notable differences between PCs and NPCs

I don't agree with that.

Bug with Balrog was not that a BN and 7 beats could solo Balrog,
the bug was that the BN could charm the 7 beasts. A design flaw
in the charm code.

In this case it was a similar design flaw in zone design and
I think the two cases can be compared just fine on that level.

In both case, imho, the player could not have been expected to
realize that they shouldn't do this because the feature is too
powerful. In the shovel scenario the bug was more obvious and
therefore I would not compare that to these two.

I would claim that the two bugs are so much equal that because
Balrog loot was taken away from the BN, consistent ruling would
be to remove whatever it was that these trolls gained from this
bug. I don't know if it should be returned to Awful et al though.


Sogard:

> You're forgetting 1 thing, Staer's in charge of Law. Staer's
> American. Staer's

For your information, Staer is in charge of law only to the extent
that it is his responsibility to deal with cases that nobody else
of same level is seriously interested to deal with. Sort of like
taking that work from burdening other Aratar.

If (and this has happened before) one or more Aratar find Staer's
decision erroneous, they have no problem overruling it. But very
rarely they disagree with Staer or care enough to call it.

Hehe, well if we look at it from that point, then I agree. You just made it look as if you're insisting that the 'soloing balrog shouldn't be possible' was the bug, not the charm. :)

Frankentroll, I think it's pretty pointless to continue this discussion with someone as stubborn and ignorant as you. Just that,

"Androg: It would be neither hard to understand nor to understand if true. But you are just making that up"

Please! Please, you're welcome to ask Staer if you don't believe me and forward me his answer then too. And I'm pretty sure he will confirm what I and many others have said in this thread.

PS. I wonder if Frankentroll is the same dude as Crapsack...? They sound awfully similar at least! :P

I was just going to post the same, Androg: that he must be Crapsack.

People who won't let others live and want everyone to get hurt by a broken rule because they themselves got hit by it in the past (and with more reasons than some others) are rather annoying. :(

Androg sputters: "Frankentroll, I think it's pretty pointless to continue this discussion with someone as stubborn and ignorant as you."

Thanks for giving up, I win.

--------------------------------------

Androg rants: "Please! Please, you're welcome to ask Staer if you don't believe me and forward me his answer then too. And I'm pretty sure he will confirm what I and many others have said in this thread."

Staer said you suck ignorance and should shut up. And if you don't believe me you can go ask him yourself about anything you want to know. That's not my job.

"People who won't let others live and want everyone to get hurt by a broken rule because they themselves got hit by it in the past (and with more reasons than some others) are rather annoying. :("

What a stupid thing to say. Nobody, not Crapsack or Frankentroll or anybody else, is advocating to hurt everybody with a broken rule. Not everybody is privileged to run around with a patently illegal name like Awful and Superdeathflame and a few others who set a bad example for everyone and make this a contentious issue. The only people "hurt" are those with decent enough names who get hassled while a privileged few enjoy immunity because of the corruption on MUME. Maybe that's the kind of world you want. It's people like you who I find most annoying.

You suck ignorance, Androg, maybe one day you will learn how to use proper grammar. But til that day, I will continue to be amused by your silly posts and pointless sputters. People like you are people who I find annoying.

Frakentroll, Ex posto Facto means you cannot be held accountable for actions that weren't a crime at the time.

However, any time a law is passed, it is decided whether the law is proactive only, or if it can be applied retroactively(nullifies ex posto facto). Anyways, the fact remains that Awful, Superdeathflame, and many others existed before the rule was created, they will never be changed unless an idiot like you were to become an arata, and even then, the others would overrule your call. Only idiots like you see a problem with awful, SDF, and others. Most people understand that these players are allowed to keep their names because of their long existance in MUME, and that they predate any rule that would make the creation of characters with those names illegal today.

Frankentroll, why don't you just nail yourself to a cross already since you've been wronged so greatly? This is my last post on the subject. Your stupid and ignorant views make it clear that Gray will denounce the use of foci before you ever admit when you're wrong.

Sorgard: I already explained to you what an ex post facto law is. You have the idea, but you don't understand how it is applied. It is unconstitutional to apply a law retroactively, i.e. "after the fact." You can't under U.S. law "nullify ex post facto" because the U.S. Constitution says you cannot have an ex post facto law. The name issue, however, has nothing to do with ex post facto laws (even assuming that MUME respected that principal, which it doesn't) or applying rules retroactively because MUME names can be changed. The use of a name AFTER the rule goes in effect is an ongoing offense. People who had a bad name before the rule went in the effect should not be PENALIZED for it (as in losing levels), but it doesn't mean the prospective use of the name should necessarily be tolerated. The name change itself is not a penalty of any consequence. You still go on being whoever you were and doing whatever you did before, only with a new name.

Not every country in the world has rules against ex post facto laws. And MUME does not have a rule against ex post facto rules. If you get caught doing something that an A+ decides should be illegal, you can be punished and then a rule against your behavior is posted on the Justice Board. Not every time, but it has and can be done that way.

I hope your last post was, in fact, your last post because you are obviously too stupid, obnoxious and stubborn to ever understand the depths of your unmitigated ignorance.

Frankentroll, you know there's this nice saying which usefulness (what a word! ;)) pops up every now and then.

Targem annab järele. :)

Crapsack, if all you can do is the grammar of a non-native speaker then, well... care to enlighten me how well you speak my mother tongue perhaps?

Pretty pointless to post here, I know, but having some people continuously post funny posts is a good way to cheer up myself! :P

Give up Androg. You are pointless.

Frankentroll is mume.net's version of Phier. Never convinced a single person, never had anyone agree with him, but always has to have the last word. Lets not try to out-post him - maybe he'll get bored and go away.

Unknown: Good luck with that. Your boring and pointless dribble was a good start.

A bug or a feature, that is the question... Many spots load a lot of mobs if no-one does them.

Heh, nice observation, Unknown.

Andróg, Im curious, what does the estonian expression mean?

Basicly, if translating the meaning then it's something like:

"The smarter knows better when there's no point in continuing and when to give up."

Came out kind of rough though... but I hope you get it. :)

PS. To the unknown with nice observation:

Perhaps he is Phier?! Wouldn't be surprising at least! ;) I mean, what's the fun in trying to have the last word against same guys always on the same board (20) all the time, heh? :P

Phier is a very bright and accomplished individual. Not so much so as I am, but he's still pretty good. And far better than any of you pathetic mind-numbing wretches. I may be wasting my time, but I just keep hoping someone witty and worthy of debate joins into our little discussions some day so I have some competition.

Then ask your idol Phier, perhaps? ;)

Or perhaps Donutello will be enough? :P

Androg: I'm not surprised that you cannot ask either of them anything you want to know, but, sorry, it is not my job to run around asking stuff for your benefit. Most likely, if you did take the time to run around asking for A+ (or whatever) opinions, those who did not laugh and call you names and run away would have diverse opinions that really wouldn't settle any matter discussed on this board. You just think everyobdy but me agrees with you. In every instance, I express opinions that have a lot validity, I support them with well-founded reasoning, and those opinions have significant support at higher and more mature levels. You, on the other hand, suck ignorance, but we love and admire you for the simple-minded entertainment you afford us. God bless you.

We love you Frankentroll!!!

Just keep up the good work Frankentroll! As said, we all love you! ;]

i like seeing troll logs are there any more?

Duendel: I just left a big one two north of Ohurk. It's yours if you want it. First come, first served!