What new parts of the Middle-Earth you'd like to see build next? (projects already in works, i.e. Isengard et al, don't count) This poll will of course affect absolutely nothing - I am just curious what parts of the world people would most like to see/play in.

I think zaugurz need one more outpost or something...like Barad-Dur or whatever it was.

I'm not bothered about new areas, they just seem to be large, open, unimaginative bore-fests. The reason people like fighting in bottlenecks is because the room-based, text-based paradigm doesn't really work in open areas. For example, when someone flees away from you you instantly lose sight of him, as if he'd run into a cloud of smoke. This is OK in corridors etc because you know which way they've gone so you can chase them, but not so in open areas, they could be anywhere.

If you have a shitload of track you can track them down, but it doesn't really make any sense to have to look for someone's tracks after they've just fled away from you.

The new areas have been pretty lame as a whole. Vale for example makes it so easy for bears to run to safety. That whole area n of Ingrove and w of Mirkwood is just a huge open rectangle, what's the point? I suppose if they ever implement Isengard it'd be a fun place to PK depending on how they make it, but Rohan will probably be just as boring as vale.

As for Lorien, that whole area is a joke. Notice the way they changed the guild practices in order to force people to actually go there. Hardly anyone would bother otherwise. And it's great fun going there as a non-elf just to be stuck outside waiting 6 hours for an elf to actually turn up to lead you in.

Then there's the changed ABR. Why someone thought that needing doing I don't know. Now all the lowbie darkies have a nice place to spam into without any skill or knowledge, and the area around it ensures they can randomly run in any direction and have a nice rest whilst their pursuers track them through all the climb/noride rooms. Not to mention the burly orcs guarding all the entraces and the insta-hitting mobs at the Brolg room. I don't know why they don't just put some exit-blocking black-skinned trolls outside and be done with it. Of course one argument for changing it is to make it 'more like tolkien described'. Well sorry but I don't remember tolkien describing that area as being full of or

I want to see Mordor!

I want to see the interior of the White Tower.

Well, I am not sure there is a good way to make something that is supposed to be a vale not an "open area." Mountaneous areas have plenty off bottlenecks still. I am one of the Tolkien-purists to be honest, so I think MUME will keep being limited by that and by the text-based environment we are in. But let me reword my question for you, given how you feel about dell-like areas and such: which areas would you like to see that you think wouldn't or shouldn't have the limitations you speak of?

And just for the record, I want to see the Esgaroth, Lonely Mountain, and that area in general. Also, Dol-Guldur (not as zorc outpost though).

Helms Deep. Lots of exp :)

xp? In Helms Deep? For darkies you mean? :-)

Jones is a troll

Just something with city-structure, lots of doors, mobs either agg towards everyone or noone. And some smob loading legend eq for people to go there. Kinda like Tharbad but without rentmob and possibility to gain citizenship.

I'd like to see:

Dol-Guldur and Isengard, like Hanne described, with neutral mobs, closeables, lots of secrets, smobs, great for pking and xping alike, and decent descriptions like in Moria. Also, Annuminas, Lake town and Minas Morgul.

So what you're saying is that you want a new Moria or two? :)

Yeah, but maybe with the mobs somewhat less aggressive. It's shit going in there as a warrior cos you just get caned to fuckery by all the mobs.

I want to see the fortifications on Rammas Echor, the ruin of Osgiliath and feel the shadow of Ephel Duath.

I want to cross the Anduin and ambush Orc patrols, or guard the morannon as Orc Chieftain!

But I also want to eat hot cream pies at The Dragon or work the forges at Isengard; there is no place in theory that I wouldn't like to see, except maybe I'd get bored listening to elves singing endlessly in Lorien.

I'm also into Annuminas, a big ghost town north of the Shire, once inhabited by men, And of course no hardened rangers would bother to go there.

I wouldn't be entirely sure it's only a ghost town though. As "at Aragorn days" there already was a small dunedain outpost near Annuminas, however JRRT left it pretty open when that outpost was built.

I'd like to see more north of the Dark Tower being built. Also to expand the Misty Mountains some, so they are as huge in the game as they seem to be in the books. Along the eastern side of ABR mainly, so that somehow (though dangerous, suffering and tiring) it would be possible to walk an entire mountain trail of some kind from OOC to DT and maybe even connect near noc on its southern side somehow, or very near to it.

Goblin Town is supposed to be in the center of the Misties, just west of the Carrock. Yet NOC is just east of DT and the "Grey Mountains". It isnt even in the right mountain range, correct? heh Or is NOC supposed to be some made up city for Orcs just on MUME, and has nothing to do with the real "Goblin-Town"? If not, I'd like to see the real Goblin Town up one day, would be neat. 8p

I truly think its a shame that the Misty Mountains were never really taken advantage of in MUME as they should of been. It was the largest mountain range and there is so much a builder could put into it

If all MUME was a big bottleneck, many well travelled spots like mountain passes would be guarded. Passing through the wrong place would mean a great danger. This would lead into an important decision which route to take and thereby add much more RP to the game without the PK being harmed, instead more present.

I agree, it would add more RP. But for those not interested at all in pking would be annoyed by the fact of travelling by many bottlenecks to get through to any place of importance they need to get to. But I still think more dangerous ways/paths/trails should be added to MUME, where only the strong/wise/(or overkill squads) would survive. Would be fun!

btw, there was a thread about the very same subject on ER too. Although it's already ~year old by now, but still.

http://www.elvenrunes.com/cgi-bin/logs/secure/mumps?rou=show&log=b999901180&disc=1&sort=1&snew=1&omode=&all=&typ=

From the poll-thread there it looks pretty much one-sided. People want Esgaroth and Lonely Mountain! (And not Gondor!)

Actually Elizalde has a point. Having Mount Gundabad in the game would be nice (and way more Tolkienish then a weird collection of darkie places we got now).

Well, first of all, something must be done to get more players here. MUME is doing a sucky job, trying to promote themselves. We have too many empty areas already. A bigger map would only spread the small population even more.

Well id you people to imagine what Mordor would be like....HUGE gates guarded by thousands of mobs, the other wasy past Minas Morgul again, guarded....then the TUNNEL with a smob in it, and then yet again another tower. Besides all that there would probably be some 50 orc patrols walking all over+ some overall deffence which runs over incase one of those 50 patrols is alarmed. Consider the place say like the whole area from fornost to bree and a bit more(i doubt they could make it any bigger) + the outside areas (Minas Morgul).
You all probably know how orcs can get easy exps in noc...and noc is REAL SMALL compared to Mordor, and now imagine lowbies going there and exping their asses off, permadarknes, perma-safeness. Do we really want it in mume? I prefer no Mordor to making it, since we have few darkies playing anyway and noc would be basicly empty, or as empty as ooc is now.
And they have done the same with lorien as they have done with ooc by putting guilds there. OOC is hard and dangerous to walk to a

Well, if you enter Mordor as a NOC orc, I'm not so sure they'd be very friendly. See what they did to Frodo and Sam even when they thought they were in their OWN army.

Any orc raised in NOC entering Mordor would either be slain right away (that orc looked at me with a funny look) or be drafted into one of the standing armies, as slave labour.

Just because they are the same species doesn't make them friends. Just look at the tark-zorc situation.

This thread should have posts start with either: "I am a Tolkien purist and I think..." or "I am a MUME power-player and I think..." I've met very few people over the years who were able to maintain a solid middle perspective.

I'm not a tolkien purist or a mume power-player, so what should I start my posts with?

Mmm, I find your statement dubious, but if that's how you feel: "I am just a regular Joe and ..." is for you.

I'm clearly not regular though, as most people lie on either side, and I'm in the middle.

It would be nice to see Gondor on the map, of course. However, I don't mention it because it seems far TOO out of sight on the building of MUME. (I say this by what I see on the current map filled with ?'s and still see no G and there would be to many ?'s to come first inbetween.) And Mordor would be likewise in my opinion, its far to out of sight right now.

So I figure, why not whine about what could be expanded and opened much quicker, connected via what exists already. 8p

Gondor? What's the point? Another non-playable open area with shitty pk and fuck all to do.

No offense, but are people going to constantly display links to ER threads that have topics related to those posted here? 8/ If we want to see ER threads, we will go to ER and read them.

This is a mume.net discussion thread!

Yeah, people whined and complained about the new ABR the same way.

"The bottlenecks are gone! boo hoo!"

"No one will die here! boo hoo!"

"Too much water to cross over! boo hoo"

People die along ABR all the time, darkies and whities both.

The only way people die around ABR is around the few remaining bottlenecks at ABR, like bushes and ohurk, not in the open areas. Outside that, it's a waste of fucking time. How many people die in the n vale area?

I disagree, people die often along ABR, and not just in bottlenecks (my experience, perhaps yours is different though!).

People do not die around northern vale much because...heh..WHO GOES THERE? Lowbie Zorcs, lowbie tarks, and the few bns that happen to pray there. It isnt very balanced there for any PK to take place in my opinion. It would be fun, but most darkies regret trying to cross the river or through Beorn's path in order to come to their safeplace. Maybe the Valar did not intend for northern vale to become an "intense pk area" to begin with. *shrug*

Bendor, you're wrong in so many places that I don't know where to begin. :-)

First of all, at MUME-time Mordor does not (should not) have permanent darkness. Sauron is living in Dol Guldur and he hasn't even began rebuilding Mordor. There are no "Mordor gates" yet. Although, quite some orcs did live there even then, Mordor is definitely no "safe-heaven" for darkies.

And I see that Mount Gundabad has been mentioned here too... there's just one tiny problem with that... it's So far. Quick calculation shows that Mount Gundabad is about as far north from NOC as far west is Bree from Rivendell. So, I'd say that currently Mount Gundabad is definitely too early to think about, though in future (when we got Esgaroth and more Mirkwood...) it's something to consider.

About Gondor. I think Gondor shouldn't just be built connecting only to Rohan. That'd make it one of the least visited places on Arda. Instead MUME should connect Gondor to rest of the built Arda from to different directions.

First through Rohan and second from north, by Anduin. Besides, that'd suit MUME goals also as Frodo headed south from Lorien from there, not through Fangorn.

PS. "No offense, but are people going to constantly display links to ER threads that have topics related to those posted here?" /elizalde.

Constantly?! This was the first time ever I did this. :)

PPS. Does it just seem to be or does mume.net have some ridicilous "comment-lenght-limit"?

It was your first time doing that Androg! *apol*


I was just hoping it was also your last! 8)

The game doesn't appear to be set at any particular time, there are so many inconsistencies.

Personally I'd rather they extended the map to this "Mount Gundabad" place. Never heard of it, but I'd like more mountain places rather than more lame open areas with no imagination.

I'd love to see more mountain areas, especially with paths/trails that could be very confusing/frustraiting/difficult if thrown off even slightly. 8p

From Encyclopedia of Arda: "A mountain in the north of Middle-earth, lying at the meeting point of the Misty and the Grey Mountains. It was here that the Orcs of the northern world had their capital. "

Actually, when thinking about it, the problem which Bendor noted above, might turn out to be reality if Mount Gundabad were be opened. Problem is, being the northern capital it hasn't to be A LOT stronger than any average orkish outpost, for example - NOC!, and the patrols controlling the area should be a lot stronger too. And that might again create a "safe-heaven" area for darkies which so far MUME has been trying to avoid.

What tribe of orcs holds command of Mount Gundabad? Zaugurz? Are there several?
This is something i would like to see, but alas, it seems impossible.

Maybe it could be the orcs' answer to Tharbad, but instead of pukes and BNs there are Tarkhnarb and Zaugurz orcs.

I asked the same question Beran did here on Roleplaying Board (Ainur only). Maedhros answered. No, Mount Gundabad would be in alliance with GG and his tribe aka Tarkhnarb. Zaugurz' northern capital was named something else (sry, I've forgot what exactly was it's name. Aredhel perhaps knows?) and it was located about half-way to Mount Gundabad.

What's the deal with Tarkhnarb and Zaugurz anyway? When I search the web for them, every hit refers to MUME. Are the tribes a part of Tolkien's writings or made up by some intoxicated imp?

Watch your language Hanne!

The names Tarkhnarb and Zaugurz are fiction, there are no tribes named like that in JRRT works.

I've always been eager to see Rohan built, Rohan being my favorite country in the lord of the rings. That would include everything from Edoras (a nice edoras, nothing shabby), helms deep and the glittering caves (make that a dwarven area since im pretty sure Gimli formed a colony or something in Aglarond in the 4th age) just a thought. Dunharrow could be made a great midlevel xp area, lots of spirits and wraiths and stuff. with the large expanse of emptiness between eriador and rohan it might be hard to make it a valid part of mume, but maybe livening up dunland could fix that.

Oh, and i love the Gundabad idea, although gundabad is quite remote from the rest of mume, waaaay far north. I also love the lonely mountain/esgeroth/dale idea, either with lonely mountain as a settled dwarven establishment or Smaug as a super mob, either would be nice.

Last one i swear. Annuminas would be awesome, something that is close enough to be an everyday part of the puke side, so long as its not some puny little minas brethil, make it fornosty.

Glittering Caves, I'd like to see that. Very much so. I didn't think it was within the scope of current Rohan project though, is it? As for Gundabad, well, it would much better than Yet Another Orc Caves.

Dale!

I would love to boat around Lake Town and enjoy a nice cool ale :P

My bear, Dwarf and torc have all pked in northern vale, but most of it was by jumping an enemy in earhtbank/rottendoor/narv, or one of the 75896759678 closeables there while xping/tping. It's also easy to xp a char to lvl 10 or so there. Get a puke to lvl 10 in vale, move w of bwb, and xp to around hero(lots of tps in vale).

Znakr: Do you have any idea what would happen to a zorc that would goto bara-dur? Assuming they even makeit that far. :P

Gundabad would have to be like Tharbad. Making it some larger noc would be totally against the point of the place, which was that all northern tribes lived there(not peacefully by they did live there). Sure, a majority of mobs would be aggro to zorcs, and a few to torcs. Citizenship woulde be possible for torcs(maybe not zorcs to keep them hard). Citizenship would be loseable, to prevent orcs from having a larger area to xp in freely, and the main mobs here would be STRONG, like GMs being GG strength, and the leader(s) of the tribes being the strength of gnarleds/glorfindel. A puke assult on the place wouldbe very hard, like a darkie assult on BM, or the shire.

Whoops, forgot my on topic comment. :P

I would like to see the anduin go from ingrove to lorien, maybe a few zones south. This would be a backway into the area, but it would be guarded near lorien to dispatch any intruders(nonpukes). You couldn't walk into the city itself this way, bout you'd beable to pass through the woods to eregion. If you had a boat, you could float from ingrove to here, but it would take a long time (you'd be going through -alot- of rooms, or you could walk along the shores(alot of the areas would probably be open until you hit the hilly/mountain areas).
I would also like to see rohan/isengard/HD get fishied someday, because they're taking far too long.
Having them finish the elven stronghold in mirkwood would be nice, aswell as a few more forest areas of the place, further from eblees, making it a lower level area that would have more use to lower levels, and not just be a giant-ass oak/roots area like alot of what we have now.

"Gundabad would have to be like Tharbad. Making it some larger noc would be totally against the point of the place, which was that all northern tribes lived there(not peacefully by they did live there). Sure, a majority of mobs would be aggro to zorcs, and a few to torcs. Citizenship woulde be possible for torcs(maybe not zorcs to keep them hard). Citizenship would be loseable, to prevent orcs from having a larger area to xp in freely, and the main mobs here would be STRONG, like GMs being GG strength, and the leader(s) of the tribes being the strength of gnarleds/glorfindel. A puke assult on the place wouldbe very hard, like a darkie assult on BM, or the shire."

Sogard, sometimes I wonder if you even attempt to make sense.

The copy-pasted part is totally utterly wrong and filled with false information. The point of the place was not some "all tribes lived there", but it was the CAPITAL of Northern Tribes. (Basicly Dol Guldur and Mordor were the headquarters of southern tribes.) (btw, Barad-dur doesn't even exist at MUME-time!). So, it was an organised capital, not some "Tharbad". It's clearly said so by JRRT. If you had an ainur you'd also know that Zorcs definitely would have no business there what-so-ever. Zaugurz capital aka the Northern Outpost (or whatever it is called exactly...) is under a mountain about half-way to Gundabad from ZOC-NOC area. Sry, unable to recall the name atm. Anyway, Gundabad would indeed be, by JRRT, a short of "Orc Heaven". But considering the nature and all that there (very far north, mountains, etc) it couldn't be defended as easily as Shire. Inside of the mountain would probably have to be similar to NOC, just 4-5 times bigger, at least, and outside like Misties, just even more "mountanious" (less trails and more climb-rooms, etc).

I ment the northern tribes, not all orcs tribes in general, sorry. Hoever, it did have orcs of the various northern tribes there I thought. Not so much as a general populace, but emassaries and whatnot.

My idea of it being like tharbad would've been that just because you're an orc, doesn't mean that you're always safe. I don't see how anyplace on arda could be harder to defend than the SHIRE, which was more or less an open landscape, unless you're referring to the overpowered defense of MUME's shire. The area wouldn't be nearly as open. More climb rooms would be nice though. Perhaps a 'shortcut' of sorts to an entrance that would require extremely good climb(like 90%+)

Maybe I need an ainur to understand zorcs not being there, but wasn't a big part of the zorc 'story' for MUMe that they had a falling out with the torcs, and like some other tribes, did not serve sauron? However, some orcs still might do business with them for a price(yes I know they'd more than likely just kill the zorcs and take everything).

Zorcs aside, Gundabad would need to be more picky about killing mobs than NOC, to prevent people from simply exping inside there like in NOC. Perhaps it would take more than having some people kill the town's leader for people to regain citizenship(perhaps give pukes scalps toa gatekeeper or something).

"Maybe I need an ainur to understand zorcs not being there, but wasn't a big part of the zorc 'story' for MUMe that they had a falling out with the torcs, and like some other tribes, did not serve sauron?"

I'd say the problem didn't really rely in "serving Sauron". Zaugurz most definitely serve Sauron, however, they do not like, in fact they hate, their Tarkhnarb cousins. Sauron's followers were never so united and friendly. It was not rare that they fought against each other, while actually both still obeyd to Sauron. And as Maedhros answered, when I asked on Roleplay board (ainur only), Gundabad the the "direct capital" of NOC and because of that also in war against Zaugurz.

I just wanted to see something new. Those fat bored ainurs which dont want to open what others done... :)

Rohan would be nice to see ; also, does this area between greenway.oer/abr/eregion ned to remain empty ?

As for bottlenecks vs open areas, well, the point is, making huge bottleneck-areas is basically giving more advatange for fastlinks. If only bottlenecks are available to pass somewhere, that means only a scout could sneak past it, someone else if solo might be spammed down fast.
Do we want more advantage towards unberlinks and also towards scouts making them the only soloable class in most areas ? *ponder*

At last, i am quite a Tolkienpurist... but not about MUME since it is BASICALLY impossible. All tolkienism is fundamentally screwed in the very mume-system (e.g. fireballing hobbitmages that roam around Fornost, a city that, at mumetime, had been deserted for a thousand years or so i think....)
So if i was integrist instead of purist i would not even play mume ; as it is, i just must admit that the 'tolkienism' argument is rather invalid to determine how mume can be, in most issues. Sure it can help, (and I like mume for a big part because it _recalls_ that beloved JRRT's world) but saying something must be 'that way and none other because of tolkienism' sounds really absurd to me.

There was a funny whois someone had a while back. Unfortunately I don't remember whose it was, or precisely what it said, but here goes:

l
A Deserted Cave
A brass lantern has been set on the ground.
A strip of leather with a buckle is lying here.
A large bulletin board, entitled "Trawl Bored", is mounted here.
A noticeable crack runs down one of the walls.
The petrified statue of the Great Olog Trix stands here forevermore.
A statue of Aucher the Troll is here.
A loyal clan troll of the Grinder stands here faithfully.
A loyal clan troll of the Grinder stands here faithfully.
Grinder, the expert on all things dark is standing here.

Suddenly *Pkeeler the Stoor Hobbit* puts a ladder to your back, climbs it, and stabs you in the back.

I'll post this here, cos I was talking about it on the songs channel in the game and got no-shouted by some corrupt god who can't take criticism (not mentioning any names).

The problem with the new areas is that they add nothing to the game whilst taking away quite a bit from it. The new vale area added nothing but a big boring open area and some standard xp, but made NOC pk a boring waste of time. The new lorien area has made practicing pukes a complete bitch, especially as a non-elf, but has added zero other than travel points.

Aredhel, the whois was OneNut's. I don't have it saved, but it went approximately like this:

Suddenly, *a Hobbit* stabs you in the foot!
*a Hobbit* growls menacingly.
*a Hobbit* gets a ladder from his a large sack.
Suddenly, *a Hobbit* stabs you in the back!

I think he said that it was Dain who made him remove it for imitating game output.

I want to see noc open in dunlend!

Well, i think next areas will be areas Tolkien gave more information - I think the game will expand more in direction of the lonely mountain, Dale and Esgaroth.
About the existing areas that opened last: Vale is bad planned, the western part between Misties and the river being too small and too open (terrain changes from high mountains directly to plain land with missing pre-hills). Northern Vale is nice and lonely, boring for pk, but a good ground for xping midlevel orcs.
Lorien is superb build, with only two problems: first, you can only go there in 4 ways: Pray as elf, go over redhorn, through Moria or use an eagle. These ways are almost impossible for the midlevel who needs to max pracs there. this problem will remain until Lorien is connected with the Anduin vale (or Fangorn/Rohan). the second problem is that you need an elf or half-elf to lead you to in, and as the area is remote and small compared to BM/GH/Bree/Fornost etc and therefore little xp, few elven characters are there (I bet some players create level 1 elves just to lead compariots over the border...)
My personal hope is that the areas south (Isengard/Fangorn/Rohan) will include rentspot for tarks and trolls, making it possible for players with little time to roam the areas with darkies.

I would like to see new areas where darkies could roam. Exploring new areas rocks!