I have seen a lot of whining about staves being looted lately. This is not meant for staffwhining, make your own thread for it if that's what you want.

Instead:

I haven't ever made a staff as puke, but i have made quite many as bn (stopped counting around 20, less than 50 made atm tho). So, i don't know how the making of staff is such a big deal. What does it take to make a staff as puke? How much harder it is than making a staff as bn?

You're kidding right? :P

Perfect Oakbranch - carve it, bless it, enchant it.
Blue crystal - bless it.

No, i'm not kidding.

Crystal loads on willow, i know that much, as well that you must sail west to create foci.

Oakbranch loads where? I got the impression there are several loadspots where it can be just picked up. Where do you carve (anything needed for carving)?

Other staff ingredients are the same for both puke & bn, right?

you pick up branch if it loads at any one of the many loadspots. To carve you take it to a mob in BM area.

Yes, thats right...the branch can actually just be picked up off the ground :)

But it takes a god damn hour for that boat to go to valinor and back.

Loadspots are common knowledge, so please no flames. There are 2 spots near noc, few e of rubble where hemlock plants load, get branch tree, follow trail w from crack near cabin go s d where 3 sets of leaves load. One more circle of trees, 2 south of abr. look for the tree, get branch tree. or just check shelf rivendale ppl are constantly dropping them there. Or be fast to nar I need branch when someone nar's they have one spare.

Getting the crystal is the only tough part. You need a willow group or a significant amount of time and effort of a character who can solo it. This can take many RL weeks to do if you do not play often or in long time periods (but then, the same is true about other legend eq - at least the crystal always loads).

Also, if your staff is max-attack or max-pb, there's stuff embedded into it which is hard to get, but that's by far not everybody's staff.

People just whine because they can whine, and because losing the staff is more annoying than losing most other pieces of eq.

The two things foci staves are good for, which BN staves aren't, is the 5/6 manacost on all spells and the faster casting.

BN staff isn't a lightsource is it?

Pukestaves can have 1-2 more items embedded than a BN staff aswell don't they?

24 minutes ain't no hour Bagger!

Milzok, yeah, but you have to wait for it to get there in the first place.

no Sogard, no more items in puke than in bn as total number, but can get several jewels of same type in same staff (eg opal+corb making +2attack, while bn rough staff can make a +1 only)
Agree, branch is really not a problem, just sometimes to make twice the trip to have it loading if none dropped in rdell : 5 or 10 mins more bobbing, no big deal ! Boring is willow : it is true taht finding a group for it can be long, depending and how many/who online... but _usually_ according to my exp, really doable for someone nice. Once you get a sanccer, buff is ok to get, and nukers are running for the xp from the moment you have the first 2.
To carve, when you enter his hut, the carpenter some s of BMs has an insanely greedy look (what a puke), so give him branch and twiddle a minute.
At last, the long boring but unmissable part is to sail west : just some obligatory idling, nothing much to say :)
and, no, bnstaff makes no light, it is the focusing that makes light... that is why we want your rubies, not only because they look so cute...

Well, staves have become something most mages can't live without, because they are being conditioned to have their spells at so little mana.
A couple of months ago, I pretty much died with Sakura every day. Every time staff gone, so every day that meant getting a branch, getting a crystal, and sailing. 2 hours of wasted time, if not more. Now this happening every day does get quite annoying :) , thus the whines

BN now, means going to noc, killing that orc apprentice and enchanting staff. Haven't really played my bn long enough to experience the constant renewal(sp?) of those, so can't really comment on that.

Comments on willow: You don't always need nukers. 3 warriors sanced by the one cleric can do willow ANYTIME, and takes no regening mana :)

A puke who loses his staff is like a BN who gets death depression. Can't cast as many spells, less spellsave, generally sucks compared to the normal situation in solo pk.

Though a clueful player recovers faster from the former. Sometimes it can be as easy as casting a locate spell. And about willow - there are so many loose blue crystals around that mustering a group is hardly necessary.

Creating a BN staff is easier, yes - but those do not give such an advantage. Still, it is not such a big deal. Why you keep hearing about it is due to the tradition of whining on mume.

No, a puke who loses his staff is like a BN who got boost to his stats and has better spells. Wow, I wish I can have that when I die. People take staff for granted, I would do some really hard quest to get a +1 attack staff on my orc. You get to have this insane weapon which isn't an artifact and yet you whine about losing it. You know, its like an elf finding Hewer in an orc's corpse, and then thinks 'Poor orc, I think I'm gonna leave it so he can kill my friends'.

"Genarlly sucks compared to the normal situation in solo pk" Well no shit, you can't spam your qspray button 50 times before you run out of mana. Just look at your fellow Bns, they seem to be pretty succesfull. People who whine about staves really got other problems and are just channeling that in there.

Here's a totally newbie question: So BN staves do generally the same thing that pukestaffs do, just to a shittier level? And no light, of course. Thats what I'm getting out of this information. Plus, I normally hate casters, and can't play them, but BN mages are so much more fun.

no, only think that bn staff does is, depending on what is embedded in it, gives some pb, some spellsave, some spellattack.
Focused pukestaff has (plus the former that bns can get too, except that they can hav more attack)these 2 insane advantages : very much reduced manacost, and much faster casting. (and lightsource as an extra)

It feels like a god damn hour!

Yeep, that sucks :-D

We're still better though, those stupid pukes shall die by my hands, when I'm actually big enough to solo an ox :-

So is there any real point for a BN to have a staff? I mean, is it THAT necessary?

Yes there are several good reasons to use staff as bn.

The reason I ask is because more often then not, I see high level BNs wandering about without a staff. They might be in between staffs, but I wasn't sure. Figured I would ask.

Want copper ring as bn? Then you probably want a bn staff as well.

It's not anywhere near a foci staff of course, but anything that makes you more powerful is of course worth it.

The reason many high level bns walk around without staff is the playstyle itself I guess. Reequipping is not something a bn should be engaged in... a lantern from island and off you go.

(that and the limited knowledge about bn staves I guess... take a look at Black Shadow Clan's homepage if you want information about bn staves)

Does the only +1 attack apply to carved staff too? I've seen plenty of non-focused puke staves lately...

It doesn't matter if your staff is foci or not, the effects from embedding still has effect. Making it foci adds mana decrease and spell speed, but has nothing to do with what's embedded.

Solution to the problem: get rid of staffs.

Puke staff is more powerfull than shining armour and easier to get than an engraved hammer.

One decent stabber + 1 sancter can kill willow in about 5 mins. (A high level stabber can do it in 1 sanct usualy.) Even without a sancter, decent stabber and someone to cure crit/cure serious can do it in 15 mins max. Decent stabber can solo in 30 mins. As far as I know willow never fails to load crystal.

This is a bit more of a pain in the winter when the river south is frozen, but that only adds a few minutes onto the total time if you get unlucky.

The fact that staves/foci in general being the most powerful items in the game and easy to get is nothing new threch.

It's nice to know alot of people are using non-focused staves, I'm sure a few bns would like a bej for themselves, just for style.

My browser must be busted again because I cant find the part where I said I was breaking new ground with the discovery that staves/foci being powerfull and easy is something new.

I always take staffs and destroy them.

I destroyed 2 staves yesterday it feels good

Dolgard how can you be so noob?

I didn't say you said that it was new, did I? No, I didn't. I was pointing out that what you were saying:

"Puke staff is more powerfull than shining armour and easier to get than an engraved hammer."

isn't something that we don't already know. You were stating the obvious, I should've just said that, sorry.

First of all I dont mind darkies to loot staves, i expect it.
But its a wrong assumption that anyone can makee a new staff less than 1 hour after they die. Atleast if your base aligment isnt good.
My aligment drops down from send to arda to firm beliver in no time. Last time all it took was the valinor 24 minut tour, my aligment had dropped down to firm.
So each time i loose staff it takes 2-3 hours of aligment working just to be able to sail west :(
Count in some extra time for branch and Willow.
And no im not even killing anything non-evil.. still aligment decays fast......

Your base alignment is evil or what? Never had that problem.

Sunning Trolls feels better Tushie :)

About the branch loading: Don't forget that there are about 6 load spots and only 2 are there at a time so you can wind up walking over all Arda before you find them, and then discover someone has taken both so you have to wait for pop. It can take several hours to make a staff. And on the sailing you have to be fast or the ship will sail away while your making staff. Then it IS an hour.

Trolls are my allies, and how would I sun a troll I don't have any spells. Spam looting your corpse unknown is something I can do. Staves are just a piece of the puzzle I want all your equip.

I was stating that for me sunning trolls is more fun...but rest assured if there is a proper situation I wont hesitate to sleep you in sun room :)

Dear Unknown, could you please state your name so it coud be targetted? Please?!?

my troll is bungol, B U N G O L please targit me, I don't think you know how to do it. I'm not afraid to show my name, but keep hiding yours behind unknown for all I know you don't even play this game. What trolls have you sunned? You can ask sonic where his staff is. I got 5k for it.

No, Alantir my base aligment is neutral i belive.

If by neutral you mean something less than 'well-disposed' upon creation, that's the problem.

Otherwise I don't know, unless you're grouping with evil chars or elbereth list or so. Or exping on some mob you didn't know was good aligned. :)

In my experience, you don't even need to pkill to have your alignment stuck at max good if your base is good or neutral; killing an occasional orc patrol does all the work you need.

Evan, ask the Valar what your base alignment is. If you messed up and set it to evil, and you haven't been killing good creatures, Valar are known to sometimes change it on request.

As to the previous unknown. I played troll for a couple hours in the last couple days, and some *Elf* (elves? not even a noble one) tried to sleep me twice, failing both times. So it is true that some loser (losers?) is out there trying this. My prediction is that the moment he gets some wps and people start seeing his name he'll become an outcast on all sides of the war - I cannot wait.

Whats wrong with sleeping trolls if you dont have intentions to sun them? My caster has few offencive spells (no fireball) and i plan to use sleep a lot, specially for trolls because i dont have enough mana to do damage to them anyways

What's wrong is that if you do it too late in night for them to drop link and in a sunlit room, you _are_ going to sun them unless they use ICQ or otherwise cheat and get someone to wake them up.

If you sleep them in a dark room, probably nothing much wrong.

Theres nothing wrong with sunning them...they play the most overpowered race in the game they deserve the risks that come with it.

Stupidity such as the previous comment really irritates me.

Cowardice to not use their name is what bugs me about the last unknown. Every arguement for sunning trolls 'just because' has been beaten into the dirt. The first was Gray's staff vs olog logic, then the RP excuse was shown invalid.

I'll agree trolls should be sleep-killed the day that they can kill a group of pukes without a problem. I've seen legend bears kill legend trolls in 1v1 fights, and I know for a fact bears aren't even close to overpowered.

I've also seen a solo bn stabber kill a staffed puke mage in a closeable. your point?

A group of trolls can kill an equally-sized puke group without problems if they set their targets right and don't allow blinders to cast. Trolls can also survive a backstab while on hurt and solo pretty much any caster in a closeable. That's not the point.

Trolls pay for their insane efficiency in combat by their total inability to move at daytime, by the permanent risk of sundeath whenever they make a mistake, by getting suntrapped and overkilled. Most trolls eventually sundie just by making a mistake, not because someone tried to sunkill them.

I would say that this is a sufficient price to pay. If it wasn't, nobody would play anything but troll, and trolls would totally rule Arda. As it is now, when the sun comes out, whities on Arda are safe from trolls.

Now. People looking for excuses to delete someone's character are lame. Suntrapping a troll by sleeping him in a dark room is a more or less legitimate strategy, sunkilling him by sleeping him in a sunlit room is being a jerk just for the hell of it.

That's it, and I stop spamming the thread.

That's it, and I continue spam looting everyting includeing your staves and giveing them for draughts and stuff to help new orcs.